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~~~~~~ Diane :-D :-D Up the road ;-) Long time no speke XXX
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Im just about to tuen computer off........
Mr Daff..... :-D :-D :-D cant believe they left the windows !! ;-) ;-)
Defintley going now .....
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Good evening ladies :-)
3 Liverpool lasses in a row ;-) :-D :-D
Could be any nationality couldn't you :-) :-) Bet you can understand scouse. ;-)
Good on you , cos I can't understand half the peeps that speak in the next village to me...youngsters speak so fast ,and non UK immigrants do too.
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Areas do tend to get tarred with same brush. If I say I lived in Leamore, people who know area usually guffaw. But I think that was one of the most enjoyable times of my life. Reason I feel so confident to write about social issues as well.
I experienced how much easier it was to get in trouble with police. I might scrump apples in both Finchfield (Wolverhampton) or Leamore (Walsall). But you were bring "naughty and mischievous" in Finchfield and police never drove round anyway. In Leamore, you were a thief and a trespasser and would get a caution from the constantly patrolling police cars. :-(
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In my day ((yawn)) if caught scrumping by the local bobby, he'd nick one of the better apples, have you throw the rest back where you got them, give you a clip on the ear and send you packing !!!
100% he knew your parents, too :-(
:-)
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Those clips on the ear did us no harm at all ;-) I heard that. Pardon?
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John did they save money at the cheap shops so they could pay for your much proclaimed public education?
Incidentally, which hall of residence did you attend at Bangor?
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Errol :-D :-D
Went to Wolverhampton Grammar School. It was not funded by taxpayer at all. It was private subscription and some old funding from Merchant Taylors company, I believe. It was free to all who passed 11+ sufficiently well, no boarders and was on the Public Schools register and we used to play against Shrewsbury, King Georges etc at sport. Really good school, but I only got one O level (Maths) and only excelled in the Combined Cadet Force and throwing the discus. Like Peter Mandelson, I was good a spinning. Unbelievably, I was one of the "thickos" and was never offered the opportunity to proceed to sixth form:-(
Plas Gwyn. Was Head of Hall 68/69. Just pulled it down, I think. I'm not far behind :-( :-( :-(
I expect you went to Barmouth :-S
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I think.... ( and don't argue with me because though I never lived in Liverpool I know how to give a Liverpool kiss!) that to brand people according to where they were born or live, shows a very poor grasp of humanity. There are low class, criminals in the 'highest' corners of the land and saints in the 'slums'...where one lives is not always a choice...how one behaves there is :-)
;-)
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The town which gives our Borough it's name, is known locally as Chav Central. As in all things, it's the visable minority in dress or behaviour which gives an area its reputation. ;-)
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It is quite interesting to see those Charles Booth maps of London. One street will be black, the next red. And I think it was black streets that were termed the criminal classes.
And many of us do it today. Two new colleagues lived in Cardiff - one in Rhiwbeina (posh - Prince Stanley Stennett lives there), the other in Ely (not quite as posh as Cambridgeshire one). And the first thought more than I had was that the one from Ely would be a bit rougher. Actually not true, both very nice. But first impressions can be quite important.
Statistics pumped out - like the average age of death on Gurnos Estate in Merthyy is 58, whereas in Upper Sheringham in Norfolk average age is 88 - do not help. :-(
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No it didnt the black areas was the poorest ( if we are talking about the same maps ) :-D
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Booth's definition of black streets:
"The lowest class which consists of some occasional labourers, street sellers, loafers, criminals and semi-criminals. Their life is the life of savages, with vicissitudes of extreme hardship and their only luxury is drink"
I should live in a red street but mine is purple. Hope Booth doesn't try and post on here :-( :-( At least we don't try and shove follk in boxes today - as I was telling my D and E friends.
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Letters page Cambrian News 10th January 2013
Insistence of Welsh at till borders on dictatorship
Madam,
Yet again we have a row over the language issue. I was under the impression that Wales is officially a bilingual country, ie with equal status to both Welsh and English.
In the case in question, the gentleman concerned had been spoken to legally in both languages, so what was the problem?
To insist that the assistant, who had quoted the cost of the shopping in English, should then translate the amount into Welsh just to humour him is bordering on dictatorship. Both languages are acceptable in Wales, therefore the lady at the till had done nothing wrong.
If it were my store I would ban him from entering it, and yes I am Welsh but at the same time I do exercise common sense where possible. I would personally have to think hard to translate monetary amounts into Welsh and, when you have a queue waiting, the priority is to serve as many customers as possible in the quickest time. Most of us do not have the luxury of time on our hands to be nit-picking whilst shopping.
This is yet another case of dictating how we should speak. It should be up to the individual to choose, not dictators. When will these fanatics realise the detrimental effect their actions are having on the language? The Census figures published recently indicate this very plainly. The language will only die when it is being thrust and forced down our throats.
So Mr Lewis expects an apology after being ‘humiliated’! How does he think that the young lady at the till felt? Maybe she would like an apology for being humiliated in front of other customers. Also what a waste of police resources.
Finally, I suggest that Robyn Lewis finds somewhere that only Welsh is spoken to do his shopping. I don’t know where he will find that place! Good luck to him in his search.
M Evans, Pwllheli
10 January 2013
Better to have resisted making a scene
Madam,
Re your story, ‘Police called as row breaks out at till’, Cambrian News Arfon/Dwyfor front page, 27 December,
Dr Robyn Lewis should realise how difficult it can be to employ Welsh speaking staff. With the influx of European workers he should not assume that any person in any workplace is a Welsh speaker. If he finds that someone cannot speak to him in his native tongue then he is at liberty to put down his goods and walk away if he finds it so offensive. I would imagine that the goods he had in his basket were, in the majority, labelled in other than Welsh. Surely it would have been better to accept the situation and resist the temptation to make a scene.
All employers that I know of in Pwllheli go to long lengths to have Welsh speakers on duty, but this is not always possible. Would Dr Lewis wish employers to resist using European staff who do not grasp Welsh (probably a policy that would breach employment law)? In this day and age, many nationals of many countries live and work in Wales and also run businesses.
Does Dr Lewis never frequent Indian, Chinese, Italian or Turkish eateries where, because of the very nature of the establishments, they employ only those who speak the relevant language? What must any tourists have thought of an educated man making such a scene?
Surely they (who are an essential to the economy of the peninsular) would have been made to feel unwelcome. Without tourism there would be no economy, and eventually even Welsh-speaking people who are born and bred here would have no choice but to move away.
Come on Dr Lewis, work with all the residents to promote the use of the beauty and language of Wales instead of having the sort of attitude that you do.
Name and address withheld
10 January 2013
Antagonistic approach interpreted as anti-English
Madam,
First I must state that I write as a British-born European of Anglo-Irish, Welsh, Scots, Anglo-Norman French, Anglo-Welsh origin, as all eight of my great grandparents were of different nationalities brought to the United Kingdom by birth or circumstance. I have no nationalist axe to grind therefore.
As a retired foreign languages teacher I can support Dr Lewis in his wish to promote the Welsh language, as I would urge all monoglot English users to acquire multilinguist skills. However, he fails in his quest to promote the language by adopting an antagonistic approach which is interpreted as anti-English. He may regret the dominance of the first language or lingua franca of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland of which he, like me, is a citizen.
We live in an area, a region of the UK, in which many have to learn English as a second language, most education being through the medium of Welsh. The predominance of English is a result of the necessity to communicate with the wider world which uses versions of the English and American languages.Whilst appreciating Dr Lewis’ preference to use his first language, I would urge him to adopt a less aggressive approach in his campaign.
Perhaps if he had repeated the figure of his bill total in Welsh, having heard and obviously comprehended it in English he would have noted the response of the employee. She was, as do many first language Welsh speakers in Pwllheli and elsewhere, using English when speaking numeric totals. I know a number of locally-born, primarily Welsh-speaking people in business who do this. Instead of this quieter, educative and pragmatic approach, Dr Lewis caused a storm in a teacup and succeeded in gaining further publicity, adding to his notoriety, as perceived, as the modern Owain Glyndwr, self-appointed protector of Welsh culture.
I regret the progressive infection of American usage in English - railway station replaced by train station; normal or ordinary replaced by regular; the in correct pronunciation of drawing as draw-r-ing and kilometer as killomiter, and many more. One must persevere to promote and not try to enforce the language. The councillors and members of the Senedd in Cardiff/Caerdydd may well waste national resources of time and money in schemes to promote and reinforce Welsh usage but their laudable aim cannot be achieved by force.
Finally, Wales is being held back by policies perceived from outside Wales as restrictive and obstructive, adding unnecessary costs to business. A more pragmatic and less Apartheid stance needs to be taken. I have lived in Germany, England, France and chose to return to this area of Wales despite my prospects for employment as a non Welsh-speaking teacher/broadcaster/writer being limited to the areas of north Wales where a less restrictive language employment policy was in force.
I do not regret that decision. I do regret seeing the decline of an area, not helped by the current debate and differences of opinion over the language issue. North Wales and the Welsh language is only part of a much bigger picture.
Stuart de la Haye, writer and broadcaster, Clynnog Fawr
10 January 2013
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Thanks Tecwyn. I honestly think those points have been made here already on this very long thread. Couldn't see anything new except it was local letters.
"She was, as do many first language Welsh speakers in Pwllheli and elsewhere, using English when speaking numeric totals. " I think that is a very good point - because it is one I have made that nobody on this thread has picked up.
I think if somebody like Dr Lewis wants "popeth yn Gymraeg" (everything in Welsh) in a legally bi-lingual country, he has some sort of entitlement to try for that. Particularly if faced with a cashier and manager whose first language is Welsh. And the blue touch paper should never have been lit. Just because Dr Lewis is 83 with a glittering career of academic, literary and legal achievment behind him doesn't automatically mean he has more commonsense than the cashier or manager.
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Quote from John's post- 12 Jan 2013 ,17.48
"She was, as do many first language Welsh speakers in Pwllheli and elsewhere, using English when speaking numeric totals. " I think that is a very good point - because it is one I have made that nobody on this thread has picked up.
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Where ? Because I can't see it ! That's why no one has picked up on it !!
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Previous quote ----( no mention of changing to English when speaking numerical totals ) !!
'Thank goodness for DET's contribution. As usual, I must have used the wrong words.
But I do not think Robyn Lewis comes out with any medals from this.
The girl was Welsh speaking and he had been speaking to her in Welsh.
That was why he was annoyed that she changed to English suddenly.
Us old people do get annoyed in shops and on the phone occasionally, you know. And most companies train their customer staff to deal with us annoying old people. Not including Genes in this obviously.'
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Your point in that post John was that she suddenly changed to English from Welsh, and the Dr was annoyed , not that many Welsh speakers use English when speaking numerical totals,
Try and remember what you have posted previously please, you look silly when you change your mind :-|
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Sandie and John; No it hasnt put me off - I was probably unlucky as you say. Lord knows there's enough riff raff in every city and town in Britain. Lucky (?) Wales will be hosting me again in the near future. I shall expect a red carpet upon my arrival. :-D :-D
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But she decided to be awkward and pushed her bell. And the manager took her side and called for the police. And Dr Lewis (who does not look much like a terrorist to me - rather pleasant and mild-mannered and bookish, I would suggest) dug his 83 year old heels in.
Probably could have dealt with it differently in hindsight. But we all see a red mist at times, and not so easy to walk away and be as diplomatic as we would like. But I have a lot of sympathy for the old boy. Still got loads of spirit.
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Little extract from a post by John....
John you really must stop trying to jump from the swings onto the roundabout as you keep falling off,,,,,,,,,!but you still wont admit the bad man needed a punch on the nose......... :-)
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Sounds to me like the locals think Lewis was an arrogant old fool too !!!! And rightly so !!!! Good for them !!!!!
I'm guessing Spar aren't going to have any problems through lack of revenue from this after all eh? :-D :-D :-D
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