General Chat

I am debating whether to add a comment or twenty about Malta, we owned a timeshare there until a year after my botched op.

Don't want to appear like a 'know it all' :-(

As Malta's income is via tourism they have to speak English and do.

Anyone who has travelled around Malta on one of the death buses will confirm that all the notices by the driver are in English and all say (in one form or another) 'IN GOD WE TRUST'
:-D :-D :-D

Punches air! ...because someone mentioned Cohen before I felt compelled to do so ;-)

Gwynne. I suppose poetry is a very personal thing. That was exactly the type of poetry I heard all those years ago.

I just feel that the craftsmanship of Milton, Shelley and Shakespeare is much better than those examples. And Welsh poetry (probably like many other Gaelic/Celtic languages) is so much finer again - mainly because those languages are so much more soothing on the ear than English. And those languages are steeped in a romanticism that goes back well over 1,000 years.

Enjoyed what you wrote. You do make a good case.

Well I was hunting on youtube for a piece of poetry read in both Gaelic and English or Welsh and English to compare...but no joy so far. However found this Stephen Fry discussing the Irish language, which is quite interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60kpWhyeZc

2 great Canadian poets wrote them. Their work is lauded world-wide, by people with a much deeper understanding of literature than you seem to have, John.

They are revered alongside the English poets you mention for their use of the best language for poetry - English.

English is far easier on the ears than the harsh Welsh of the north, although the gentle Welsh of the west is easier on the ears. And English has a lot more words for poets to play with.

That's why Dylan wrote in English - and so well.

I've been on the death ride buses in Malta Sue - I think I read recently that they have been scrapped

I took my driving license when I went there with my Mum so we could hire a car but when I saw the state of the roads I decided against it

I would never claim to know much about poetry or art, Gwynne. Have to defer to the experts. But, like many, I know what I like. A poem gets into my soul, a painting gets into my soul. I used to be able to recite by heart much of L.Allegro - "hence loathed Melancholy Of Cerberus and blackest midnight born, In Stygian Cave forlorn 'Mongst horrid shapes, and shreiks, and sights unholy" And sonnets on his blindness, and on becoming 23 years old. In Welsh, the one that reached fabulous heights for me won the Chair at Bangor Eisteddfod in 1902. Called "Ymadawiad Arthur" (Arthur's Departure) by T Gwynne Jones. It is about the island of Avalon - a sort of Shangri-lah. Beautifully crafted poem. The opening line: "draw dros y don mae bro dirion" (yonder, across the waves, there is a gentle vale)

Dylan Thomas was brought up in an English speaking home in Uplands, Swansea. Parents were fluent Welsh speakers but insisted on using English in front of children. Father was local English teacher at a time when Welsh was not taken at all seriously. Dylan never knew much Welsh, and never wrote in that language as far as I know. Yes, a great wordsmith

John I have been reading the tread again & would like to know How did you get into University? What qualifications did you get? I only ask because i'm interested. :-D

BK, I think he got an "Ology" :-D For Rabbiting.

I do like what you're researching Merlin :-D :-D :-D

BK. Got one O level (Maths) at 15. Failed other 6.

Then managed to get 3 O's at 16 English Language, French and History). And two years later took 3 A levels. Wasn't academic at all (clearly) and dad found me a job in Nat Prov Bank (which became Nat West). So became a junior bank clerk in West Bromwich High St for a year. Quite good - £340pa.

During that year, I gained confidence and realised my A levels (A in Ecomomics, B in English Language and Literature and C in Geography) were quite good. And Bank were willing to release me and sponsor me a bit and keep my job open for 3 years :-D Did Economics degree (best subject was statistics). And, after Bangor, they placed me as a Senior Management Trainee (£1,200pa) in a large branch in Cornhill, London. Hated it and got a job with a very cheap and nasty company called Tesco as a "graduate trainee". And had over 20 very happy years with them and saw them go from "Pile it High, Sell it Cheap" to the leading UK supermarket company.

Know that will be too long for some and they won't believe a word of it, but that is my version of events. Any particular reason for asking, BK?

John, I need no lesson from you about Dylan Thomas, please don't be so patronising. I studied his poetry in some depth as a student, with excellent tutors.

I have to agree, though, that the Welsh poetry of today is nothing compared to that of the past.

...because initially John you said you only had 1 O'level & I was thinking how times must have changed.

So now I have to ask why didn't you get Welsh O'level/ A Level as people taking subjects like that help keep them alive.

Nice to see a good English Education got you on the road to Uni :-D

BK Think we tend to get our quals to get better jobs. Needed 4 O levels to get a banking job. Bank said an Economics degree would help my banking career further. Got quite a few more post grad quals for work in my 20's and 30's - marketing, personnel.

Never studied Welsh academically. But went to evening classes at the London Institute in early 1970's and attended Welsh literature summer school at Coleg Harlech each summer between 1970 and when I met my non-existent wife in 1976. Met loads of leading Welsh authors and poets. After that it was sun-worshipping in the Med twice a year till we started our family:-D :-D

Gwynne. You implied that Dylan Thomas wrote in English because there are more words to express himself. Was merely pointing out the reason he did not know a huge number of Welsh words was that he did not speak Welsh. I would say that was clarification, not being patronising. Was it not you who suggested I must be a bit stupid to not appreciate that Canadian poetry. I did like it - just does not float my boat like much of Welsh poetry with its clever alliteration and internal rhyming.

Looked back at my post, can't see the word stupid there, John. You must have been imagining things, as you'd know if you'd bothered to look higher up the page and check.

Dylan wrote in English because he wanted to, living where he did he could easily have brushed up on the Welsh he did have, but chose not to. He mastered the English language which has far more words, particularly descriptive words, than Welsh, as I said before, which is why it's the choice of many poets who speak two or three languages.

O levels to get a Banking job in 1970?

My dad started working for bank in 1970 aged 34 no O levels

I got a job with the same bank in 1974 but turned it down and took a job paying £1 a week more....but returned in 1979... I have no O levels either

I also had a friend who worked in Nat West Cornhill

Jax. It was 1963/64. I hope someone will confirm my memory that you needed at least 4 O levels including English and Maths to get a bank clerk job. And I rather think it was 2 O levels at least for post office clerk job. I remember taking an entrance exam aged 16 with about 100 others for 2 Post office clerk jobs in Walsall at that time - because I think I was waiting for my second year of O level reults and doubted I could improve on my first attempt of only one O level.

I came well top out of about 100 and had a job offer, and realised I was not so twp (dull) as I thought. Then got my O level results and asked dad if he would allow me to continue to A levels. Parents were very supportive. And I never needed the Post Office job. :-D

Gwynne. Don't think reason DT chose to write in English was for any higher reasons than that he was not very familiar with Welsh at all, he could reach a much greater audience through English anyway. and he was very gifted in English and it made him sufficient money to fund an expensive lifestyle. Can't think of any Welsh language poets who made much money - unless they sold their chairs on EBay.

DT had a father that taught English & DT could not talk in welsh.
He also knew if he was to write in English he would sell more to the public.
He also knew if he was to write in English he would have many more words he could use.
That is why he would always write in English.

Dylan's father David was an English Lit graduate who believed English a superior language, although he and his wife spoke Welsh fluently and he occasionally taught it. Dylan would have had Welsh speaking friends and he could have learned the language properly had he chosen to but he didn't.

Dylan grew up steeped in English poetry and prose, his father would recite to him and that's where his love of poetry and language came from.

I very much doubt that money was in his mind when he began writing, BK. Not many poets get rich from their writings.

But Dylan was a genius. Thanks goodness English was his chosen medium, imagine his genius being lost to the English speaking world.

Think I will have to agree with John here regarding qualifications for jobs.
It may have altered later,but in 1951 I had to have at least 6 O levels for my office job at ICI.
I think banks then wanted A levels and As you had to pay for university then..no grants..my parents couldn't afford for me to go ,even though I'd been prepared for it in the Latin class...as you had to have Latin then to go to uni.
This was not in Wales,but there weren't as many students then as you had to go to work and go to night school to further your education..
Sorry if this has gone off subject ,but in this case John is right.