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Hi,

I'm trying to trace my dads family and have become very stuck!

I have managed to get back to my Gt Gt Grand Father George Alfred Arrowsmith.

He was born in1869 in Birmingham and Died in 1904 when his body was found in the Great Barr Canal.

On his marriage certificate it states his fathers name is John Arrowsmith (dec) and he was a Boatman. George was also a boatman.

Any ideas as to how I can find out more information as I can't seem to find them on the Census's.

Also my Granny Ethel Arrowsmith had both her children in Aston Workhouse and both were illegitimate, is there any way I can find out more information about this. She managed to keep both children and raise them herself.

Thank you in advance!! :-)

Welcome to the boards, Zoe.

How do you know he was born in 1869, Birmingham - have you got his birth certificate?

Thank-you

Is this the family?

1901 England Census
George Alfred Arrowsmith Age: 32 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annmaria Arrowsmith
Gender: Male Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Aston Ecclesiastical parish: Saltley St Saviour
County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England
Registration District: Aston Sub-registration District: Erdington
ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Household Schedule Number: 97 Piece: 2878 Folio: 154 Page Number: 15
George Alfred Arrowsmith 32
Annmaria Arrowsmith 29 Walsall, Staffordshire,
George Alfred Arrowsmith 7
Ethel Maria Arrowsmith 5
John Henry Arrowsmith 3
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2878; Folio: 154; Page: 15.

in 1881 there is this George with father John, a labourer unemployed

may or may not be yours

SYMONDS, Henry Head Married M 37 1844 Carpenter
Hereford, Herefordshire VIEW
SYMONDS, Esther Wife Married F 32 1849
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
SYMONDS, Leah E Daughter Single F 10 1871 Scholar
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
SYMONDS, Annie Daughter Single F 6 1875 Scholar
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
BRITAIN, Ann Grand Mother Widow F 84 1797
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, John Visitor Married M 36 1845 Labourer (Unemployed)
Studley, Worcestershire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Mary A Visitor Married F 34 1847
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Thomas Visitor Single M 12 1869
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, George Visitor Single M 10 1871
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Rose Visitor Single F 5 1876
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Arthur Visitor Single M 3 1878
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Esther Visitor Single F 1 1880
B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW

Piece: 3041

Folio: 77

Page: 23

Registration District: Aston

Civil Parish: Aston

Municipal Borough:

Address: 23, Talford St, Aston

County: Warwickshire

1901
ARROWSMITH, George Alfred Head Married M 32 1869 Boatman
Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Ann Maria Wife Married F 29 1872
Walsall, Staffordshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, George Alfred Son M 7 1894
Saltley, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Ethel Maria Daughter F 5 1896
Saltley, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, John Henry Son M 3 1898
Saltley, Warwickshire VIEW

Piece: 2878

Folio: 154

Page: 15

Registration District: Aston

Civil Parish: Aston

Municipal Borough:

Address: 6, High Street Coleshill Terrace, Aston

County: Warwickshire
refine search back to 1901 census search results

Does he state an age on the marriage certificate?
Marriages Sep 1893
Arrowsmith George Alfred Aston 6d 511
Griffin Ann Maria Aston 6d 511

1911 ?
ARROWSMITH, Ann Head Widow F 41 1870 Charwoman Staffordshire Brierley Hill VIEW
ARROWSMITH, George Son Single M 17 1894 Horse Driver Birmingham VIEW
ARROWSMITH, John Son M 13 1898 Birmingham VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Albert Son M 9 1902 Birmingham VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Ethel Daughter Single F 15 1896 Cleaning Birmingham VIEW
ARROWSMITH, Harry Son M 7 1904 Birmingham VIEW
GRIFFIN, A Brother Single M 24 1887 Painter House Birmingham VIEW

RG number: RG14

Piece: 18343

Reference: RG14PN18343 RG78PN1103 RD385 SD5 ED24 SN276

Registration District: Aston

Sub District: Erdinton

Enumeration District: 24

Parish: Aston

Address: 11 Drayton Terrace Clayton Road

County: Warwickshire

1911 would confirm that marriage Pat - A Griffin is recorded as her brother:

George Arrowsmith
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Erdington
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address: 11 Draton Terrace Gate St Saltley Birmingham
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Horse Driver
Registration District: Aston
Registration District Number: 385
Sub-registration District: Erdinton
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Piece: 18339
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Arrowsmith 41 (born Brierley Hill)
George Arrowsmith 17
John Arrowsmith 13
Albert Arrowsmith 9
Ethel Arrowsmith 15
Harry Arrowsmith 7
A Griffin 24 (born Birmingham)

Strange though, although it's crossed out I'm sure it says she was married 10 and half years - wonder if she meant that was how long she was married before being widowed.

Hi ya,

Thank for helping

I don't have his birth certificate, I tracked him via my Grannys info.

On the marriage certificate he was 23 and a labourer and his father John was a boatman. They wed on the 21st August 1893 at St Saviours in Salty.

On Georges death certificate it states that he was a boatman then.

I need to find John Arrowsmith now or get Georges birth certificate somehow. :-) :-)

Strange though, although it's crossed out I'm sure it says she was married 10 and half years - wonder if she meant that was how long she was married before being widowed.


I think it does as they married in August 1893 and he died in Jan 1904.

So if things are crossed out on a census what does that mean? Its just that George's occupation was down as a boatman, which was crossed through and barge put next to it?

Can't find a birth reg for either George or Ethel.

Edit: this is the only birth coming up for the right time but in the wrong place:


Births Mar 1869 (>99%)
ARROWSMITH George Alfred Hackney 1b 427

At the moment the only information as to birthplace is that 1901 census?

The ages do appear to agree on marriage, census, and death.

Barge families a bit negligent as regards registration?

probably not him, just wondering if 23 when married may be born 1870
names reversed
?????????

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Alfred George Arrowsmith
Name: Alfred George Arrowsmith
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1870
Registration District: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 124

I do only have the birthplace from the census although my Dad said we were all from Birmingham!

I never thought that they could have reversed their names, which is daft of me as my grand dad went by his second name.

I couldn't find birth info for either of them. I will ask my dad if he has any birth certificates for his gran.

If his father actually existed and was called John and they were from Birmingham, this is a possible death
Deaths Mar 1882
ARROWSMITH John 36 Birmingham 6d 92

Possible for 1871 for the Alfred b 1870:

Name:Alfred Smith
[Alfred Arrowsmith]
Age:8 Months
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1870
Relation:Son
Father's Name:John Arron Smith - Waggoner
Mother's Name:Mary Smith
Gender:Male
Where born:Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish:Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish:Christchurch
Town:Birmingham
John Arron Smith 35
Mary Smith 23
Thomas Smith 2
Alfred Smith 8 Months

Is there an address for George on the marriage cert?

??????????????
Civil registration event: Marriage
View the original image

Name: ARROWSMITH, John

Registration district: [?] Birmingham

County: Warwickshire

Year of registration: 1868

Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun

Spouse's last name Not available before 1912

Volume no: [?] 6D

Page no: [?] 181
MarriageFinder™: [?] John Arrowsmith married one of the following people Transcript
JACKSON, Matilda VIEW
KEMP, Mary Ann

John is a wagoner, but his next door neighbour is a boatman

1871 England Census
John Arron Smith [John Arrowsmith]
Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Smith
Gender: Male Where born: Studley, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England
Registration District: Birmingham Sub-registration District: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Household Schedule Number: 7 Piece: 3113
Folio: 33 Page Number: 2
Possibly living at the back of Summer Row
John Arron Smith 35 could be 25
Mary Smith 23
Thomas Smith 2
Alfred Smith 8 Months
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3113; Folio: 33; Page: 2; GSU roll: 839577.

Maddie's family in 1881

Above family in 1881, with Alfred now George?

Name:Mary A. Arrowsmith
Age:34
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1847
Relationship to Head:Visitor
Gender:Female
Where born:B ham, Warwickshire, England
Street Address:23 Talford St

Henry Symonds 37
Esther Symonds 32
Leah E. Symonds 10
Annie Symonds 6
Ann Britain 84
John Arrowsmith 36 - labourer
Mary A. Arrowsmith 34
Thomas Arrowsmith 12
George Arrowsmith 10
Rose Arrowsmith 5
Arthur Arrowsmith 3
Esther Arrowsmith 1

Edit: see Maddie has already posted this above.