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John in 1861,
Studley Warwichshire not Worcestershire
CHELLINGWORTH, Ann Head Widow F 40 1821 Needle Manufacturer
Studley, Warwickshire VIEW
CHELLINGWORTH, George Son M 6 1855 Scholar
Studley, Warwickshire VIEW
ARROWSMITH, John Boarder Unmarried M 15 1846 Needle Finisher
Studley, Warwickshire VIEW

Piece: 2233

Folio: 66

Page: 26

Registration District: Alcester

Civil Parish: Studley

Municipal Borough:

Address: Alcester Road, Studley

County: Warwickshire

Thank you so much for your help so far.

There isn't an address on the Marriage Certificate sadly.

So if George was actually Alfred then I should be able to order his birth certificate.

Now to find Johns birth as I think the death record is him, I'd love to know who sired the child after his death. Mind you I'd like to find out who my grand dads father was aswell lol

could this be John
Civil registration event: Death
View the original image

Name: ARROWSMITH, John

Registration district: [?] Birmingham

County: Warwickshire

Year of registration: 1882

Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar

Age at death:36

Volume no: 6D

Page no: 92

edit already posted by Patchem

Not that it really helps, but could this be the birth of the Harry in 1911:


Births Mar 1904 (>99%)
HARROWSMITH Harry Aston 6d 398

Mary Ann is widowed here:

1891 England Census
Mary A Arrowsmith Age: 41 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850 Relation: Head
Where born: Birmingham Civil Parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen Town: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England
Registration District: Birmingham Sub-registration District: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 27 Piece: 2389 Folio: 115 Page Number: 42
Mary A Arrowsmith 41
Arthur J Arrowsmith 13
Alfred Arrowsmith 2 son so who is the father?
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2389; Folio: 115; Page: 42; GSU Roll: 6097499.

I was just about to post the same census as Potty, think you may have got them - but George maybe a bit younger than originally thought?

Above family in 1881, with Alfred now George?

Name:Mary A. Arrowsmith
Age:34
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1847
Relationship to Head:Visitor
Gender:Female
Where born:B ham, Warwickshire, England
Street Address:23 Talford St

Henry Symonds 37
Esther Symonds 32
Leah E. Symonds 10
Annie Symonds 6
Ann Britain 84
John Arrowsmith 36 - labourer
Mary A. Arrowsmith 34
Thomas Arrowsmith 12
George Arrowsmith 10
Rose Arrowsmith 5
Arthur Arrowsmith 3
Esther Arrowsmith 1

Edit: see Maddie has already posted this above.

John is a wagoner, but his next door neighbour is a boatman

1871 England Census
John Arron Smith [John Arrowsmith]
Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Smith
Gender: Male Where born: Studley, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England
Registration District: Birmingham Sub-registration District: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Household Schedule Number: 7 Piece: 3113
Folio: 33 Page Number: 2
Possibly living at the back of Summer Row
John Arron Smith 35 could be 25
Mary Smith 23
Thomas Smith 2
Alfred Smith 8 Months
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3113; Folio: 33; Page: 2; GSU roll: 839577.

Maddie's family in 1881

??????????????
Civil registration event: Marriage
View the original image

Name: ARROWSMITH, John

Registration district: [?] Birmingham

County: Warwickshire

Year of registration: 1868

Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun

Spouse's last name Not available before 1912

Volume no: [?] 6D

Page no: [?] 181
MarriageFinder™: [?] John Arrowsmith married one of the following people Transcript
JACKSON, Matilda VIEW
KEMP, Mary Ann

Is there an address for George on the marriage cert?

Possible for 1871 for the Alfred b 1870:

Name:Alfred Smith
[Alfred Arrowsmith]
Age:8 Months
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1870
Relation:Son
Father's Name:John Arron Smith - Waggoner
Mother's Name:Mary Smith
Gender:Male
Where born:Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish:Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish:Christchurch
Town:Birmingham
John Arron Smith 35
Mary Smith 23
Thomas Smith 2
Alfred Smith 8 Months

If his father actually existed and was called John and they were from Birmingham, this is a possible death
Deaths Mar 1882
ARROWSMITH John 36 Birmingham 6d 92

I do only have the birthplace from the census although my Dad said we were all from Birmingham!

I never thought that they could have reversed their names, which is daft of me as my grand dad went by his second name.

I couldn't find birth info for either of them. I will ask my dad if he has any birth certificates for his gran.

probably not him, just wondering if 23 when married may be born 1870
names reversed
?????????

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Alfred George Arrowsmith
Name: Alfred George Arrowsmith
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1870
Registration District: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 124

Barge families a bit negligent as regards registration?

At the moment the only information as to birthplace is that 1901 census?

The ages do appear to agree on marriage, census, and death.

Can't find a birth reg for either George or Ethel.

Edit: this is the only birth coming up for the right time but in the wrong place:


Births Mar 1869 (>99%)
ARROWSMITH George Alfred Hackney 1b 427

Strange though, although it's crossed out I'm sure it says she was married 10 and half years - wonder if she meant that was how long she was married before being widowed.


I think it does as they married in August 1893 and he died in Jan 1904.

So if things are crossed out on a census what does that mean? Its just that George's occupation was down as a boatman, which was crossed through and barge put next to it?

Hi ya,

Thank for helping

I don't have his birth certificate, I tracked him via my Grannys info.

On the marriage certificate he was 23 and a labourer and his father John was a boatman. They wed on the 21st August 1893 at St Saviours in Salty.

On Georges death certificate it states that he was a boatman then.

I need to find John Arrowsmith now or get Georges birth certificate somehow. :-) :-)

1911 would confirm that marriage Pat - A Griffin is recorded as her brother:

George Arrowsmith
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birmingham
Civil Parish: Erdington
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address: 11 Draton Terrace Gate St Saltley Birmingham
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Horse Driver
Registration District: Aston
Registration District Number: 385
Sub-registration District: Erdinton
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Piece: 18339
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Arrowsmith 41 (born Brierley Hill)
George Arrowsmith 17
John Arrowsmith 13
Albert Arrowsmith 9
Ethel Arrowsmith 15
Harry Arrowsmith 7
A Griffin 24 (born Birmingham)

Strange though, although it's crossed out I'm sure it says she was married 10 and half years - wonder if she meant that was how long she was married before being widowed.