General Chat

I came across this story earlier today and wondered what opinions others might have.
A single gay man decided in his 30's he wanted to become a father but as time went on the relationships he had with other gay men ended as none wanted to have children with him.

As he couldn't find any willing partner to have children with, he went to America and found a woman to donate an egg. . After a second round of IVF which was successful, a surrogate woman agreed to have the fertilised egg implanted and carry his child.

The eggs were screened for abnormalities and he chose to have a boy. All went well and the baby boy was born on Boxing Day in 2019. The man travelled to America the day after and brought his son home to his house on the Sussex coast.

He paid 10k to the woman who donated the egg and 40k to the surrogate. Both woman had their own families and he was sure they wouldn't change their minds.

He is in touch with them both sending regular photos etc and when the child is old enough to understand, he will tell his son who the special ladies are. He says there is an "egg mummy" and a "tummy mummy."

In order to fulfil his dream of becoming a father, he had to sell his london home to finance it although as a lawyer he had a good job but the total cost was 200k!

When the child turned 2 he admitted he struggled to cope with the tantrums and the word no. The son was calling him mummy! he corrected him to say daddy but one has to wonder how this will pan out as he gets older. He admitted that he found it very isolating during lockdown and struggled to cope.

Now I am not against anyone who can't conceive naturally having IVF treatment as for many, this is an amazing treatment for infertile couples etc But I can't help feeling that he has been completely selfish giving his age. When the child is 11, he will be 65. Does he seriously think he will have the patience and energy at 67 to raise a teenager??

He apparently rewrote his will to say if anything happens to him, a cousin in the USA has been given guardianship until the child is 18.

I just think its all wrong. It's like he wanted a baby, he could afford it, so he bought one.There are many women who are single parents but for most they didn't choose to be single because maybe their relationship broke down and that is different.

What a complicated life this little boy has and I cant help but worry for his future.
Also he has no female relations in his life either, no aunties etc

Am I wrong to think the way I do or is it acceptable that if you have the money, you can buy anything you want?

Florence in the hebrides

Florence you ask if you are wrong. I think maybe you would be wrong if you were criticizing him being a single parent of 54 as a man. Would you feel the same about a woman single parent . Would you think a woman of 65 was more able to raise a teenager than a man. I am not saying if I think he was right or wrong I am just trying to get a balance of opinion. Probably it is a pity that he didn't take action when he was younger but maybe the answer was not available to him then.

I can see your reasoning and it does feel like buying a baby but he is not the only one to have done it, male and female. I just wonder if he thought it through, babies, toddlers and teenagers are hard work. But it just shows that the urge to reproduce is or can be as strong in a male as a female. I hope that he continues to have good health and can give the boy a good life, hopefully he continues to be well off. I wonder if he has given up work though?

Ann there was a woman a few years ago whos actual children were all grown up and in their 30's if i recall. She was divorced and on her own and lonely. She was I think 60 ish? and so she went abroad to have IVF and have a child. She is now in her 80s and the child late teens/early 20's. She said she had plenty of money and if anything happens to her she will be well provided for and her grown up children can take care of her!

I remember thinking then, how selfish of you. You have had your family and are biologically now too old, it shouldn't be allowed but once again she had the finances to do it.Why on earth didn't she throw her spare time in doing charity work or find a hobby. Having a child late in life shouldnt be done to fill a gap of loneliness.

I don't know if the man still works, maybe as a lawyer he can from home and then maybe pays for a childminder if hes out for the day say in court? I dont know the article didn't say.

If he had decided when he was younger, it would have been better I guess.

IVF in this country has an age limit for good reasons.

Im not judging him as a man, single or gay but the age is the problem. if say, he dies suddenly at 60, that child doesn't have a mum, aunty or uncle to turn to but a cousin in the USA. He has put himself in this position whereas in a coupled situation, if a parent dies suddenly there would be the other one to look after the child.

For the child's sake, i hope the man lives a long age and the child enjoys a good life.

Florence in the hebrides

On similar lines, a couple I worked with in the 70s were resigned to not having children then when she was in her late 40s thought she was going through the change was actually pregnant and had 2 weeks to buy everything for the baby, they were shocked and pleased.

That was lovely for them ZZzzz...Not much time to shop then! That happens sometimes.

Florence in the hebrides

All that matters to me is whether a child is wanted and loved and well cared for as plenty miss out on at least one of those things. Some young parents die or have health problems that become a burden on a child who then becomes their carer. This man has likely made provision for his own care if needed. Yes there will be much to explain to the young boy but I expect he will grow up with more tolerance and understanding.

My grandmother was aged 50 when she had my mother naturally and she was the youngest of her 10 children. As for siblings, my mother's eldest siblings were already married with families of their own to care for and had moved away from the area before she was born. I'm not sure she even met most of them.

'Am I wrong to think the way I do or is it acceptable that if you have the money, you can buy anything you want?'

People who are well off also buy a baby when they pay for IVF don't they?

I'm not judging any views here, just trying to see a bigger picture and every circumstance is different..

As an aside to this story....

I know of a family of 2 Dads, with one of them being the biological father of their baby.

Baby was born last year from a donated egg emplanted in another surrogate mother, who was married and already had children with her husband.

On the child's birth certificate, it was the person who gave birth who was shown as the mother. Her husband was shown as the father. :-S

How confusing for family historians of the future. We always used to say that we could be sure of a child's maternal line, but now......?

2 Dads are about 30 and had to formally adopt the baby.
They seem a very loving family and babe has plenty of female contact from family and friends.


Couldn't quite understand why the son in O.P would call the man Mummy.
Who was he copying?

Annx re IVF my brother and his wife were 43 when they married. They needed a helping hand ie IVF but using their own eggs & sperm to directly inplant into the womb as she had already miscarried and felt time was running out for them. It worked and they have a little boy who is 5 now.So that wasn't buying a baby as in from a donor, they made it themselves.

Gwyn, that doesnt sound quite right?? Although biologically the woman is the mother of the child but her husband isn't related in any way?? i often wondered from a genealogy point of view how that pans out re the birth certificate. Why would they have to adopt the child if one of the dads is its biological father? I actually didn't think surrogacy in this country was allowed, thought people always went abroad or am i woing here for thinking that?

I don't know why the child called him mummy either. Is it innate? Ie if we were never told what a mum or dad is, would we just call the person looking after us mummy automatically?

Florence in the hebrides

Interesting Gwyn! As you say, the maternal line is becoming less certain in modern times. Mind you, in the past a child from an unmarried daughter's pregancy would be explained as the parents' child and the daughter's sister in some cases.

There is one in my tree of dubious parentage as her mother is 48 and her eldest sister is 30.

Mr Owl’s grandmother had two daughters aged 16 and 12 when she suspected she might be pregnant again. The doctor told her she was too old to be pregnant and must be going through the change of life. It was 1954, grandma was 39 and my mother in law was a blessing to her parents as they said she kept them young.

I believe if I remember what I read correctly the little boy sometimes calls his dad “mum” as he is at nursery and most of the other children are picked up by their mothers. I don’t agree with him having a son at 54 as when you spin the years forward he will be 65 when his son turns 13 and 75 when his son turns 23. Will his son feel like he needs to look after his dad when he should be drinking, clubbing and enjoying going out with friends.

If you don't agree with a man of 54 having a child, then you should direct the same criticism toward a woman who is 54 or older having a child by IVF just because of the age. I believe the oldest woman who decided to have a child, never having had any, was around 85.

How about 2 married men having children at that age? Goes that make a difference because they are married?

Think Elton John and his husband, or Anderson Cooper who has just had his 2nd child by surrogate, even though his same sex marriage broke down after the first child was born. Are they wrong?

Elton John is 74, his eldest child is 10. Cooper is 54, his first child is 2 years old and the second was born earlier this year.

Anderson Cooper is a famous journalist and commentator, especially on CNN, and the son of Gloria Vanderbilt.

I equally disagree with a woman of 54 having a child. If both people in a relationship are the same age and both were 54 I would still disagree with them even if it was two women, two men or a man and a woman as all that may do is double a child’s sense of responsibility. I will add a caveat to my feelings though in that if a grandparent is raising their grandchild I do feel differently as it isn’t what they planned in life but likely through a sad set circumstances they have had it given to them.

I can’t go into details as these are obviously living people but I know a couple who adopted a child when they were in their 60s. One parent is now over 70 and child is just entering the teenage years and the adoptive parents are aware of how difficult life may get. Are those of you who are against older parents on the grounds of age alone suggesting this child, who was quite disturbed, should not have been brought into a loving, stable home where the child has flourished simply because the parents were no longer young?

I don't think age alone is a problem. After all there aren't any guarantees that younger parents will live to see their children grow up. My Dad died at 56, my Mum was 97 and she didn't need 'looking after' until very late on in her life. A loving and stable home is the most important thing and I agree with Vera above.

Im not judging whether married, gay straight etc. There is an age limit on adoption in this country. A woman's biological clock has a limit. The reason is beyond these years the parent or parents may be subject to health problems and possibly not be able to fully bring the child up and support them through their lives.

I take my hat off to people who adopt children that may have had a difficult start in life. But if you are over 60 and take on a teenager, it hardly seems fair that the child might end up in care. Being an older parent can mean you are more likely to get ill or become disabled in some way. Its a natural process as we age, arthritis, hip replacement etc. Vera I didn't know you could adopt in your 60's in this country?

Re Elton John for example, he son is 10.Elton has just had hip surgery not so long ago but its ok because he is very rich and can afford to employ staff and nannies no less to look after his children!! I doubt if he will be around long enough to see his children grow up and get married which i find sad.

It can be said that younger parents could fall ill at any time but in your 20s & 30s you have far more energy to run around and look after your children. You may be say 38 and have a child of 15 and be happy to take them to a concert etc because you are still young enough then to enjoy it but would you be happy if you were 70 with a teenager going to a concert? i love my music but even at 60, would not want to be at a concert with a load of teenagers..

Its not just being against a parent at a later age, its everything that goes with it compared to being younger and fitter.

I also personally dont think its fair or ok to be able to just get a baby by paying lots of money and doing it as a single parent. But that's just my opinion.

All of your replies cover many different angles and different scenarios and have made interesting reading.

Florence in the hebrides

I understand what you are saying Florence and have some sympathy for your view.

There is no upper age limit for adoption in this country. Adoption agencies, courts etc will look at all the circumstances. All else being equal, I imagine a younger couple would normally be preferred but an older couple that can offer the child more may sometimes be preferable.

I can’t imagine that any older person considering becoming a parent by surrogacy, adoption or whatever would do so without giving a lot of thought to what could happen in the future. Perhaps I’m just naive.

I know a couple who were overjoyed but really surprised when they naturally conceived a baby, who was born a couple of months before they were each 47.
They are now 60 and the chuld has had a great life, with Mum and Dad enjoying taking them to all manner of places and events.
I would say that the child has more opportunities than many of their age, because the parents have a more established home life, are part of loving extended families and are financially more secure than many young parents.

We know that womn can become pregnant quite late but do we really want it as the norm:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10593353/Women-mothers-FIFTY-Israeli-scientists-claim-reverse-ageing-eggs.html

Edit: soryy the c&p link is not working again.

I have mixed feelings about this and I think it depends on circumstances and health. My young sister had her first child at 38 and her second at 46 and if she is anything to judge by she’s done OK. When Ed Sheehan gave two free tickets to everyone at his old school, it was my sister who went with her older child - and thoroughly enjoyed it.

If it had been my Mum (who had my sis at 41) she would never have gone.

While I realise we can never know when our time is up, it is more likely to be at an older age, however, I think it wise that all who have children ought to have a contingency plan in case of their own deaths.

When we lived overseas we knew that if anything happened to us, my brother and sister would travel to fetch the kids back to the UK and my sister would take them into her home. We had that sorted after the birth of our first child.

I have a friend in America who decided to try for a baby with her much younger husband when she was mid 40s. She was lucky and conceived fairly quickly and her son is now in his early 20s and he is her pride and joy. She and his father split up when their son was about 14 but he has lived with both of them equally. His father is Mexican so the lad speaks Spanish and English and has spent time on both countries, now studying in Spain.

I recently have been helped with my family tree by a man who retired to Spain. He is my age, coming up to 75, and has a daughter by his second (current) wife who us obviously a bit younger. Their daughter is mid 20s and has lived in Spain most of her life so speaks English and Spanish. Her Dad was around lots more for her when she was young as he retired early.

Knowing how I felt wanting a child, especially after I lost my baby daughter, I would have tried for longer had I not been lucky enough to have my son at the age if 35.

Lizxx