General Chat

I reckoned that humans evolved menopause because it takes so long to bring their children to maturity, that it would be a serious waste of resources raising children that would be unable to survive by themselves. Also the males would be more likely to die while hunting and in conflicts, so there is no point in having a male menopause.

However this article investigates the problem a bit more scientifically:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/why-do-killer-whales-go-through-menopause/512783/

Not quite so true nowadays it seems.

ZZzzz that's because a man's fertility is different from a female's. His biological system doesn't work the same way as ours. But why that is, I actually don't know. That's the way we were created I guess.

What I don't understand is why a woman can't conceive because her body clock has stopped (for want of a better phrase) yet a man is able to father a child when he is in his 70s or 80s.

Liz I didnt get married until I was 32. I had my son at 34 and my daughter at 36.
Im so sorry for the loss of your baby daughter, that would have been devastating.

Many women have started having their families later and putting their careers first so having babies in later 30's early 40's which is fine.(but not mid 50's)

My opinion was that after your natural biological clock for a women has passed, say around mid forties, it isn't right that you can go somewhere regardless of your age and "buy" a baby either a donor , surrogate or whatever. Choosing to raise a baby singlehanded in your mid 50's in my opinion isn't right.

There are many single mothers etc but they have not chosen to be single parents. They would be because a relationship has broken down or one partner has sadly died which is completely different.

So just because a gay man in his mid 50's desires to have a child on his own, doesn't mean he should get what he wants because he can afford to.

Florence in the hebrides.

I have a friend in America who decided to try for a baby with her much younger husband when she was mid 40s. She was lucky and conceived fairly quickly and her son is now in his early 20s and he is her pride and joy. She and his father split up when their son was about 14 but he has lived with both of them equally. His father is Mexican so the lad speaks Spanish and English and has spent time on both countries, now studying in Spain.

I recently have been helped with my family tree by a man who retired to Spain. He is my age, coming up to 75, and has a daughter by his second (current) wife who us obviously a bit younger. Their daughter is mid 20s and has lived in Spain most of her life so speaks English and Spanish. Her Dad was around lots more for her when she was young as he retired early.

Knowing how I felt wanting a child, especially after I lost my baby daughter, I would have tried for longer had I not been lucky enough to have my son at the age if 35.

Lizxx

I have a friend in America who decided to try for a baby with her much younger husband when she was mid 40s. She was lucky and conceived fairly quickly and her son is now in his early 20s and he is her pride and joy. She and his father split up when their son was about 14 but he has lived with both of them equally. His father is Mexican so the lad speaks Spanish and English and has spent time on both countries, now studying in Spain.

I recently have been helped with my family tree by a man who retired to Spain. He is my age, coming up to 75, and has a daughter by his second (current) wife who us obviously a bit younger. Their daughter is mid 20s and has lived in Spain most of her life so speaks English and Spanish. Her Dad was around lots more for her when she was young as he retired early.

Knowing how I felt wanting a child, especially after I lost my baby daughter, I would have tried for longer had I not been lucky enough to have my son at the age if 35.

Lizxx

I have mixed feelings about this and I think it depends on circumstances and health. My young sister had her first child at 38 and her second at 46 and if she is anything to judge by she’s done OK. When Ed Sheehan gave two free tickets to everyone at his old school, it was my sister who went with her older child - and thoroughly enjoyed it.

If it had been my Mum (who had my sis at 41) she would never have gone.

While I realise we can never know when our time is up, it is more likely to be at an older age, however, I think it wise that all who have children ought to have a contingency plan in case of their own deaths.

When we lived overseas we knew that if anything happened to us, my brother and sister would travel to fetch the kids back to the UK and my sister would take them into her home. We had that sorted after the birth of our first child.

We know that womn can become pregnant quite late but do we really want it as the norm:

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10593353/Women-mothers-FIFTY-Israeli-scientists-claim-reverse-ageing-eggs.html

Edit: soryy the c&p link is not working again.

I know a couple who were overjoyed but really surprised when they naturally conceived a baby, who was born a couple of months before they were each 47.
They are now 60 and the chuld has had a great life, with Mum and Dad enjoying taking them to all manner of places and events.
I would say that the child has more opportunities than many of their age, because the parents have a more established home life, are part of loving extended families and are financially more secure than many young parents.

I understand what you are saying Florence and have some sympathy for your view.

There is no upper age limit for adoption in this country. Adoption agencies, courts etc will look at all the circumstances. All else being equal, I imagine a younger couple would normally be preferred but an older couple that can offer the child more may sometimes be preferable.

I can’t imagine that any older person considering becoming a parent by surrogacy, adoption or whatever would do so without giving a lot of thought to what could happen in the future. Perhaps I’m just naive.

Im not judging whether married, gay straight etc. There is an age limit on adoption in this country. A woman's biological clock has a limit. The reason is beyond these years the parent or parents may be subject to health problems and possibly not be able to fully bring the child up and support them through their lives.

I take my hat off to people who adopt children that may have had a difficult start in life. But if you are over 60 and take on a teenager, it hardly seems fair that the child might end up in care. Being an older parent can mean you are more likely to get ill or become disabled in some way. Its a natural process as we age, arthritis, hip replacement etc. Vera I didn't know you could adopt in your 60's in this country?

Re Elton John for example, he son is 10.Elton has just had hip surgery not so long ago but its ok because he is very rich and can afford to employ staff and nannies no less to look after his children!! I doubt if he will be around long enough to see his children grow up and get married which i find sad.

It can be said that younger parents could fall ill at any time but in your 20s & 30s you have far more energy to run around and look after your children. You may be say 38 and have a child of 15 and be happy to take them to a concert etc because you are still young enough then to enjoy it but would you be happy if you were 70 with a teenager going to a concert? i love my music but even at 60, would not want to be at a concert with a load of teenagers..

Its not just being against a parent at a later age, its everything that goes with it compared to being younger and fitter.

I also personally dont think its fair or ok to be able to just get a baby by paying lots of money and doing it as a single parent. But that's just my opinion.

All of your replies cover many different angles and different scenarios and have made interesting reading.

Florence in the hebrides

I don't think age alone is a problem. After all there aren't any guarantees that younger parents will live to see their children grow up. My Dad died at 56, my Mum was 97 and she didn't need 'looking after' until very late on in her life. A loving and stable home is the most important thing and I agree with Vera above.

I can’t go into details as these are obviously living people but I know a couple who adopted a child when they were in their 60s. One parent is now over 70 and child is just entering the teenage years and the adoptive parents are aware of how difficult life may get. Are those of you who are against older parents on the grounds of age alone suggesting this child, who was quite disturbed, should not have been brought into a loving, stable home where the child has flourished simply because the parents were no longer young?

I equally disagree with a woman of 54 having a child. If both people in a relationship are the same age and both were 54 I would still disagree with them even if it was two women, two men or a man and a woman as all that may do is double a child’s sense of responsibility. I will add a caveat to my feelings though in that if a grandparent is raising their grandchild I do feel differently as it isn’t what they planned in life but likely through a sad set circumstances they have had it given to them.

If you don't agree with a man of 54 having a child, then you should direct the same criticism toward a woman who is 54 or older having a child by IVF just because of the age. I believe the oldest woman who decided to have a child, never having had any, was around 85.

How about 2 married men having children at that age? Goes that make a difference because they are married?

Think Elton John and his husband, or Anderson Cooper who has just had his 2nd child by surrogate, even though his same sex marriage broke down after the first child was born. Are they wrong?

Elton John is 74, his eldest child is 10. Cooper is 54, his first child is 2 years old and the second was born earlier this year.

Anderson Cooper is a famous journalist and commentator, especially on CNN, and the son of Gloria Vanderbilt.

There is one in my tree of dubious parentage as her mother is 48 and her eldest sister is 30.

Mr Owl’s grandmother had two daughters aged 16 and 12 when she suspected she might be pregnant again. The doctor told her she was too old to be pregnant and must be going through the change of life. It was 1954, grandma was 39 and my mother in law was a blessing to her parents as they said she kept them young.

I believe if I remember what I read correctly the little boy sometimes calls his dad “mum” as he is at nursery and most of the other children are picked up by their mothers. I don’t agree with him having a son at 54 as when you spin the years forward he will be 65 when his son turns 13 and 75 when his son turns 23. Will his son feel like he needs to look after his dad when he should be drinking, clubbing and enjoying going out with friends.

Interesting Gwyn! As you say, the maternal line is becoming less certain in modern times. Mind you, in the past a child from an unmarried daughter's pregancy would be explained as the parents' child and the daughter's sister in some cases.

Annx re IVF my brother and his wife were 43 when they married. They needed a helping hand ie IVF but using their own eggs & sperm to directly inplant into the womb as she had already miscarried and felt time was running out for them. It worked and they have a little boy who is 5 now.So that wasn't buying a baby as in from a donor, they made it themselves.

Gwyn, that doesnt sound quite right?? Although biologically the woman is the mother of the child but her husband isn't related in any way?? i often wondered from a genealogy point of view how that pans out re the birth certificate. Why would they have to adopt the child if one of the dads is its biological father? I actually didn't think surrogacy in this country was allowed, thought people always went abroad or am i woing here for thinking that?

I don't know why the child called him mummy either. Is it innate? Ie if we were never told what a mum or dad is, would we just call the person looking after us mummy automatically?

Florence in the hebrides

As an aside to this story....

I know of a family of 2 Dads, with one of them being the biological father of their baby.

Baby was born last year from a donated egg emplanted in another surrogate mother, who was married and already had children with her husband.

On the child's birth certificate, it was the person who gave birth who was shown as the mother. Her husband was shown as the father. :-S

How confusing for family historians of the future. We always used to say that we could be sure of a child's maternal line, but now......?

2 Dads are about 30 and had to formally adopt the baby.
They seem a very loving family and babe has plenty of female contact from family and friends.


Couldn't quite understand why the son in O.P would call the man Mummy.
Who was he copying?