Genealogy Chat

My ex-husband's family (and therefore my children's) are reportedly connected to the Bowes Lyon's. I've so far managed to trace back to my ex-husband's Great Grandmother Margaret Bowes, who married Matthias Ovington on 26/12/1898, when they were both 22 years old (found that on the marriage certificate). Margaret's father is listed as William Henry Bowes, so I started a search for a William Bowes with a Daughter Margaret in the census records. Typically I have come up with two families with a Father William and Daughter Margaret. (The Margarets' being born a year apart and typically in the same area). Neither says if the William has the second name of Henry. I've found a birth record for a William Henry Bowes in December 1849 at Stockton &c (not sure what the &c stands for) but I'm assuming that could be Margarets father. Both Margarets I've found are born in Newcastle around 1876/7. I don't know what 'my' Margaret's Mother's name was either, otherwise that would help. The Ovington's & the Bowes all came from around the Newcastle/Durham areas.

I'm not sure what to do next to try and confirm which family is the right one, unless I order the birth certificates for both Margaret Bowes, to be sure of getting whichever one is the right one with William Henry Bowes as her father. Does anyone have a suggestion as I feel like I've hit a brick wall. I've tried familysearch and scoured endless BMD records. I seem to have a mental block and wondered if anyone could look at it from a new angle for me. Is there something obvious that I am missing (apart from brain cells?)

I have some basic info on how the Bowes Lyon family were formed, and have traced the Bowes right back to the early 1300's, but it is the bit between Margaret Bowes 1876/7 and where it meets the older generation of Bowes around the 1700's, who were Earls of Strathmore etc, that I am really struggling with now.

Many, many thanks in advance to anyone who can shine any light on this for me !

Gerry

What was your Margaret's dad's occupation on the marriage cert? Does this differ from the other Margaret's dad's?
How about the witnesses, were any of them Margaret's siblings?

As a point of interest “&c” is an abbreviation for “et cetera” on FreeBMD

How about this for 1891 - the image isn't clear but I think it says Bowes

Margaret Bowen
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Wm Henry
Mother's Name: Rebecca
Gender: Female
Where born: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Civil Parish: Byker
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Newcastle Upon Tyne
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: Byker
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Bowen 16
Frederick Bowen 1
Margaret Bowen 14
Rebecca Bowen 40
Rebecca Bowen 5
Wm Henry Bowen 43 gen labourer

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4214; Folio 80; Page 7; GSU roll: 6099324.

Parents born Stanhope Co Durham, children b Newcastle

Andy

Same family 1881

Margaret Bowes
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Rebecca
Gender: Female
Where born: Newcastle On Tyne

Civil Parish: Byker
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street address: 79 Cook Street
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: Byker
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Bowes 6
Henry Bowes 1
Jane Bowes 11
Margaret Bowes 4
Rebecca Bowes 30
William Bowes 33 puddler at ironworks

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5067; Folio: 78; Page: 9; Line: ; GSU roll: 1342223.

This time William is born Middleton, Co Durham and all the rest are born Newcastle

Andy

The marriage cert must give her fathers occupation - does that not help tie them in to the right lot? Andy has one with right name and right age for the daughter - a labourer/ironworks puddler? does that fit.

Have you looked for the marriages of these two Williams to see if a second name is mentioned there?

Wow! What quick responses. Thank you all so much, that's been a great help. It's all fairly obvious when you look at it. I think I'd been on it for so long I'd hit a mental block and couldn't see the wood for the trees.

Keith - Thanks for the &c information. I'd not come across that before and didn't have a clue what it meant. I thought it was some indication of another place name which was confusing me.

Claire - William's occupation on the marriage certificate was Labourer, which would certainly tie in with what Andy has found on the 1891 census where he is listed as a General Labourer. I'm pretty certain now that this is him.

Andy - Wow...well done you! Sometimes I keep forgetting that you have to allow for enumerator errors. The writing is not always immediately obvious, and I can now see that they have mistaken the 's' for an 'n'. What I have changed my mind on though is the original birth record I had found in 1849. Stockton '&c' seemed a bit of a distance away, so after checking on the census you found for 1891, which gave his birth year as 1848, I knew that usually you have to go back one more year, and in Oct Nov Dec 1847 I found William Henry Bowes born Weardale. In the 1891 Census he lists his birthplace as Stanhope. A quick check on local live told me that Stanhope was the same area as Weardale - bingo !

Thank you *SO* much. You have no idea how much of a headache it was becoming for me last night. I was going round in circles and had so many windows open trying to check various things that my pc was running really slow.

Now to correct all that info in my tree and see if I can get back any further towards making the connection ;o)

Gerry

Well if you have decided that is the right couple, the next step is to buy their marriage cert for their fathers names and occupations.

To check what areas a reg district covers on free bmd just click on the reg district and it will bring up a list of towns covered.

Hi Heather, thanks for both of your replies (didn't see the first one until just now. Yesterday I did indeed try looking for the marriage of William, but it bought up several and that was where I was getting stuck as I couldn't see a way to tell which one it was. Now I know who he married (at least her first name), I can check on Ancestry for a possible marriage for him and cross reference the place vol & page to see if there is a Rebecca and hopefully find out what her surname was. Then I'll be ordering the marriage certificate.

Have to admit I've not seen/used Free BMD before. Just googled it and found it so will have a good look around on there too - thanks for the tip on that, much appreciated.

Gerry

Gerry, FreeBMD is a very useful tool, very flexible, but not complete yet, I am actually transcribing 1927 births at the moment, but I know marriages are more complete in the 1920's.

You can check the coverage transcribed here:-
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/progress.shtml

Gerry

Do use freebmd for up to 1920s - its transcriptions are passed on to Ancestry but Ancestry don't update as regularly.

Hi, on freebmd when you look up a marriage using one name, if you click on the page number at the end of the line with your named person it will bring up the others on that page - hopefully the right number of brides and grooms - if you know the brides first name you can then be fairly sure you have the right couple - but anyway certs can be ordered using either bride or grooms name alone.

One thing I did notice - there is a fair old gap between the eldest and next child in that family - this may indicate a second marriage. So check in both likely time spans.

If you click on Stockton&c on freebmd, it takes you to an information page which tells you:-

The district Stockton &C is an alternative name for Stockton and it spans the boundaries of the counties of Co. Durham and North Riding of Yorkshire; information about it can be found here


If you then click on "here", it gives you the names of all the small places included in the registration area called Stockton&c


Very easy when you know how!!


sylvia

HI Jerry

Better still

Log onto
www.durham.gov.uk..

on the right of the page there a box with common links in..

Registrars Certificates..

This will take you to the Registrars website..
Where the majority of the marriages are covered from 1837.. click on link to search for spouse and the wife's name and maiden name will appear..lol

Mo

Newcastle.. Sunderland..replace Durham with either of the two above and follow links to register offices.. Most have search engines to allow to search for names.. and spouses..

Mo

Mo thanks for that. I've had a quick look and I think it's going to be an invaluable resource.

The problem I'm having now, having sorted Margaret Bowes, is her father William. I think his wife was Rebecca, although not found a surname yet. They appear to have had about seven children, but search as I may, I just can't find a marriage for them. I started with their eldest daughter Jane but the problem is finding the right parents, as there seem to be about three Janes, born around the same time, with the father's name of William.

I have managed to find a few other people who think they have a very similar connection, so things are progressing, but it's certainly no easy task. Mental blocks seem to abound just now.

Thanks for all the great links everyone - VERY much appreciated :o)

Gerry

One more tip for FreeBMD -- you actually can search by both bride & groom names, which you can't do at Ancestry, for before 1911.

FreeBMD will give you the pages where the two names appear, and of course you won't know whether they married each other. But if you already know who married whom, or at least parts of the names of the people who married, it's a great boon.

So you can search for, e.g.:

Smith
John
married Louise

or

Smith
John
married Jones

or

Smith
married Jones

or even

John
married Louise

The more common the names, the more likely FreeBMD will reject the search unless you make it very narrow by date and place.

So you can sort out the Williams who married Rebeccas directly via the search criteria, without having to plough through all the Williams who married anybody, to see which ones married Rebeccas.

Hi Jerry

I have a feeling that Wm Henry and Rebecca were not married till after they had the children..
oopss

Marriages Dec 1890

Boldon Rebecca Newcastle T. 10b 262
Bowes William Henry Newcastle T. 10b 262

Mo

I have a large family that did this too.. have kiddies from 1875 didnt marry till 1902

That throws another fine wrench into things -- it's usually the sign of a pre-existing marriage.

I have one too. The couple is together in 1851 with kids, my gr-grmother is last born in 1865, and they marry in 1872 at the age of 45.

One of them having a living legal spouse who finally popped his/her clogs is the only reasonable explanation ... I'm just danged if I can find one for mine.

Bolbec Hall or Morpeth Records office as well as Newcastle Central library will hold baptisms for the area which will show the names of both parents. However, I think that further back they would have been Scots and a visit to Register House Edinburgh would not go amoiss Yvonne

Marriage Register. St Paul's Church, Hunwick.
2nd November 1892
Robert Vickers, aged 31, bachelor, Occ. Coalminer, residence at the time of the marriage Rough Lea Hunwick. Father Joseph Vickers, Occ. Coalminer.
Elizabeth Ellen Bowes, aged 21, spinster, residence at the time of the marriage Quarry Burn Hunwick. Father Robert Bowes, Occ. Labourer. They both sign their names.
The witnesses to this marriage were Robert Dawson and Margaret Bowes, who both sign their names.

Marriage Register. St Helen's Church, Auckland
23rd November 1887
William Thomas Thompson, aged 20, bachelor, Occ. Labourer, residence at the time of the marriage West Auckland
Frances Bowes, aged 27, spinster, residence at the time of the marriage West Auckland. Father Robert Bowes, Occ. Labourer. They both sign their names.
The witnesses to the marriage were Saml McCutcheon and Eliza Jane Kay who both sign their names.

St Mark's Church, Eldon.
23rd September 1915
Hugh Bowes, aged 23, bachelor, Occ. Miner, residence 74 Ox House. Father Thomas Bowes, Occ. Miner
Eunice Cowey, aged 19, spinster, residence 6 Edward Street Eldon Lane. Father William Cowey (deceased), Occ. Brakesman.
Witnesses John Cowey and Thomas Carter.
All Sign

St Paul’s Church, Evenwood
26th September 1914
Hugh Bowes, aged 27, bachelor, Occ. Railway Platelayer, residence South Church, Bishop Auckland. Father Hugh Bowes retired
Laura Walker, aged 21, spinster, residence Ramshaw Evenwod. Father Simpson Walker, Occ. Mason
Witnesses George Bowes and Elizabeth Alice Walker
All Sign

St John the Evangalist's Church, Merrington
1831
Ralph Laws of the parish of Brancepeth and Janes Bowes of this parish were married in this Church by Banns this Fourteeth day May in the year One Thousand Eight Hundred and Thirty One bu me Joseph Fisher BA Curate. This marriage was solmenized between us Ralph Laws who makes X his mark and Jane Bowes who signs her name. In the presence of Thomas Gibbon and Fredrick James Laycock.

St John’s Church, Monk Hesleden
16th December 1961
James Mercer, aged 23, bachelor, Occ. Labourer, residence 46 Beech Grove Trimdon Station. Father Anderson Mercer, Occ. Miner.
Margaret Bowes, aged 20, spinster, residence 18 West Terrace, Hesleden. Father Joseph Thomas Bowes, Occ. Miner.
The witnesses to this marriage were John William Woollhouse and Joan Elliott

St Mary's Church, Staindrop
3rd January 1841
Alexander Bowes, of full age, bachelor, Occ. Labourer, residence Staindrop. Father William Bowes, Occ. Labourer.
Margaret Colling, of full age, spinster, residence Staindrop. Father Thomas Colling, Occ. Labourer.
Witnesses Robert Fletcher and Margaret Stamp
Alexander Bowes and Margaret Colling both make X their mark all other parties sign

dont know if these are any good..
Bowes marriages from my data bank..lol

Mo