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Caroline
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5 Apr 2010 21:20 |
Good evening GR Members,
My question is was it possible that not all births were registered? If families didn't register their child / children why would that have been? Has anyone else come across that in their research?
Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards Caroline.
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Joy
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5 Apr 2010 22:07 |
Absolutely :-) Some births in my ancestral family were registered and some were not.
There was no penalty on parents' failing to register until 1875, many believing that registration was not necessary if the child was baptised.
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Caroline
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5 Apr 2010 22:29 |
Joy,
Thank you so much for that. I had started to think that I was going mad!
What was the penalty after 1875? As the ones I'm looking at were born between 1883 - 1895! The ones born after 1895 - 1901 do appear!
I guess baptism records are my next hope, but by all accounts they were not at all religious!
Best wishes Caroline.
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Joy
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5 Apr 2010 22:41 |
You're welcome.
This is a useful site about registration, but I can't discover yet what was the penalty. I shall keep searching :-)
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/civilreg.html
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Caroline
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5 Apr 2010 22:45 |
Joy,
Thank you. I have just noticed the other thread that you have brought forward from few years back, I have now book marked that. That will make for useful reading for myself and others I'm sure.
Thank you for taking the time to help me.
Best wishes Caroline.
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Joy
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5 Apr 2010 22:47 |
Again, you are welcome :-)
By the way, you may find that some deaths were not registered, too. It happens unfortunately!
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Joy
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5 Apr 2010 22:58 |
http://www.exploregenealogy.co.uk/BirthCertificates.html
Between 1837-1875 it might prove a bit harder, as some didn't register, or even gave false names for a number of reasons - to hide the true age of a child so it could be sent out to work, or, after 1853, because parents wanted to avoid the compulsory vaccination of children at three months old, which was introduced that year. Until 1875 there was no penalty for parents who didn't register a birth, and then a £2 fine was introduced.
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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!
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5 Apr 2010 23:07 |
Caroline,
Who are you trying to find? Sometimes the names are spelled differently or under the mother's maiden name.
Rose
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Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)
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5 Apr 2010 23:11 |
I have a whole family not registered. All born between 1874 and 1894. Only two fo them were baptised. One of them as a young girl but no date of birth recorded for her.
The rest - pah! No registration, no baptisms, zilch.
And one of them is my grandfather!
Jill
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Caroline
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5 Apr 2010 23:12 |
Joy,
:o) You are a star! Thank you once again! £2 doesn't seem a lot now, but I'll bet it was back then, as money was tight for a lot of folk.
Am heading fro bed now, but will check out those sites tomorrow.
You have saved my sanity! I can now end this fruitless search after some four / five years (on and off). I strongly suspect that my Great Grandad wasn't registered, So, now to see where else this adventure will take me! More questions I'm sure! With answers from lovely people like yourself taking the time to help.
Best wishes and very many thanks, Caroline.
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Caroline
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5 Apr 2010 23:23 |
Rose and Mrs Grumpy,
Thank you for your responses.
Rose, I'm looking for my Great Grandads birth. I have tried all sorts! I eventually found him on the 1901 census as Billie! (female spelling!?!?!), so I am aware of weird variations. I know that his parents were married when the children were born, so I hadn't thought of his Mums maiden name being used, thank you. Would that be normal then?
Mrs Grumpy, Oh dear, how frustrating! I would definately be sat in a corner somewhere hitting my head on the wall if I came across that in my research! Luckily 3 of the 10 were registered in my search, so I can go from there.Thanks to census records I found that he was one of ten, my Dad had thought there was just two lads!
Thank you both very much for replying to my question. Given me some more to think about!
Regards Caroline.
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maggiewinchester
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5 Apr 2010 23:44 |
If you can't find a baptism around the time of their birth, look for one around the time they married/possibly married. Nearly all marriages at this time were in a church - and you had to be baptised/christened to be married in a church.
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SylviaInCanada
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6 Apr 2010 00:19 |
The problem with registrations after July 1 1837 but before mid-1875 was that although it was compulsory to register births, the onus was upon the Registrar to find out about births, and then to attend the family to register the birth.
As you may imagine, this often did not work out, and parents did not seek him out either!!
The law was changed in mid-1875 so that it was the responsibility of the mother to ensure that the baby was registered. She had 6 weeks in which to do that ............... but some (many??) took longer, and then may give the wrong birthdate to escape the fine!
Another time for baptisms to take place is just before the child was to start work. Some employers insisted that their servants/workers were baptised before being employed, and that they attended church regularly. So you could try looking about 8-15 years after birth
It is also possible to find mass baptisms of several siblings ..................... either because there was no vicar in the village, or because the parents couldn't afford it.
I often try putting in a 20 year period for baptism
sylvia
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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!
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6 Apr 2010 00:40 |
Is this the one:
Births Jun 1886 YORK William Chandler Bethnal Green 1c 148
He's under his mother's maiden name.
Rose
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Caroline
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6 Apr 2010 19:33 |
Maggiewinchester, SylviaInCanada,
Thank you both very much for the info. Again, more options to look at. And things I hadn't considered.
Best wishes, Caroline.
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Caroline
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6 Apr 2010 19:37 |
Hi Rose,
Thank you for having a look at that for me, I believe his mothers maiden was Walker. I can't recall off hand where I got that name from without looking through all my paperwork. I have ordered several Wiliam Chandler BC and none of them have been him! Grr!
Kind regards Caroline.
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MaureeninNY
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6 Apr 2010 20:46 |
For what it's worth-I really think Rose might be on the right track with the birth for William Chandler York. There doesn't appear to be any sign of a person with that name afterwards. It looks as though one of your William's sisters was baptised as: Name: Ann York Chandler Record Type: Baptism Date: 25 Nov 1883 Father's Name: Henry Chandler Mother's Name: Sarah Chandler Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green Borough: Tower Hamlets County: Middlesex
Do you have any of the children's birth certs??
Maureen
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Caroline
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6 Apr 2010 21:30 |
Hi Maureen,
Thank you for your reply. May I ask do baptism records state the fathers job? Sorry if that seems a very silly question. As I have never delved into baptismal records before....I would have no idea of where to start looking!
Unfortunately I don not as yet have any of his siblings BC's. It wasn't so long ago that I discovered he was one of ten children!
I will follow up that lead. I will order the younger sibling BC's and see where that leads me.
Thank you so very much for your help and suggestions.
Best wishes Caroline.
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Caroline
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6 Apr 2010 21:33 |
Hi Rose,
Thank you for all your help. May I ask another question please? I was just wondering how you knew I was looking for William Chandler....as I can't see that I'd put his name on the thread before my message earlier this evening!!!!!! Spooky!?!?!
Best wishes Caroline.
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MaureeninNY
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6 Apr 2010 22:01 |
Hi Caroline, Luckily for those of us with London ancestors Ancestry has filmed a lot of the records. Here are the children that I think belong to your Henry and Sarah (the ones I was able to find,that is). Do they seem to match your info? London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906Name: Henry Chandler Record Type: Baptism Date: 23 Oct 1881 Father's Name: Henry Chandler Occ:Box cutter Mother's Name: Sarah York Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green Borough: Tower Hamlets County: Middlesex born Sept.29,1881 Address:2 Collingwood ?Place
Name: Ann York Chandler Record Type: Baptism Date: 25 Nov 1883 Father's Name: Henry Chandler Occ:Carman Mother's Name: Sarah Chandler Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green Borough: Tower Hamlets County: Middlesex Born Oct 28,1883 can't read the address
Name: Richard Chandler Record Type: Baptism Date: 29 Mar 1891 Father's Name: Henry Chandler Occ:Carman Mother's Name: Sarah Chandler Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green Borough: Tower Hamlets County: Middlesex Born March 12,1891 15 Newcastle Street
Name: Thomas Chandler Record Type: Baptism Date: 2 Apr 1893 Father's Name: Henry Chandler Occ:Carman Mother's Name: Sarah Chandler Parish: St Philip, Bethnal Green Borough: Tower Hamlets County: Middlesex 15 Newcastle Street
Name: Charles Chandler Record Type: Baptism Date: 13 Oct 1895 Father's Name: Henry Chandler Occ:Carman Mother's Name: Sarah Chandler Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green Borough: Tower Hamlets County: Middlesex Born Sept. 19,1895 46 Mount St
Name: James Chandler Record Type: Baptism Date: 17 Apr 1898 Father's Name: Henry Chandler Occ:Carman Mother's Name: Sarah Chandler Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green Borough: Tower Hamlets County: Middlesex Born March 29,1898 46 Mount St
Name: Eliza Chandler Record Type: Baptism Date: 27 Jan 1901 Father's Name: Henry Chandler Occ:Scavenger? Mother's Name: Sarah Chandler Parish: St Augustine, Haggerston Borough: Hackney County: Middlesex Born Jan 9,1901 57 Goldsmiths Bldgs
Good luck!
Maureen
P.S. I swear our Rose has psychic abilities!!
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