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Yes that's a possibility, her birth certainly alters through every census, including her first name she was down as Sarah in 1841 and in 1891 down as Mary. I am unable to find a death for her 1st husband James Warren, however have just found a death for a James Warner, Brentford Sept 1845, certainly has all the letters in the surname so could possible have been mixed up in writing it down. 1845 seems a possibility because that's the year my great grandmother Pheobe Warren was born, their last child

Yes that's a possibility, her birth certainly alters through every census, including her first name she was down as Sarah in 1841 and in 1891 down as Mary. I am unable to find a death for her 1st husband James Warren, however have just found a death for a James Warner, Brentford Sept 1845, certainly has all the letters in the surname so could possible have been mixed up in writing it down. 1845 seems a possibility because that's the year my great grandmother Pheobe Warren was born, their last child

John ......


why suddenly Warwickshire??

My guess ....... she's 96 years old, probably frail, maybe not communicating very much, and someone else gave the information for her, and got it wrong!

That someone could have been her daughter Emma or her grandson Alfred ................ or even a neighbour!

Must admit, I had not seen the 1901 census . It certainly looks as if her death was 1902. Wonder why all of a sudden it's stated she was born in Warwickshire when through the years she's always been down as born in Worchestershire. Certainly her birth year has been different in most of the census's . Well I think that ends my search and I would like to thank everyone for all the help you have given me

Despite the age, I think this is likely the death for Susan (She was still living in 1901):

First name(s) SUSAN
Last name CLARK
Gender Female
Birth year 1803
Age 99
Death quarter 4
Death year 1902
District BRENTFORD
County Middlesex
Volume 3A Page 63
---------------------------------

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hope Cottages, 3, Twickenham, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Susan Clark Head Widow Female 96 1805 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Emma Watson Daughter Widow Female 60 1841 Cook Domestic Hanwell, Middlesex,
Alfred Peace Grand Son Single Male 40 1861 Bricklayers Labourer Whitton, Middlesex,

I realise James Warren must have died before 1851 and the family were still living in Isleworth in 1861 but just could not find a death for him. As with Susannah Warren who became Clarke, she was still alive in 1891 and with grandson Alfred but her name down as Mary Clarke, couldn't find a death for a Susan Clarke but found 2 Mary Clarkes died in Brentford, one age 84 and one age 85 both deaths in 1892. Looked up a Susannah Warren just in case she went under that name and found one in 1910 age 84, . By 1911 Alfred Pearce grandson was living with his Aunt Emma, so wonder if Susan died in 1910 , bearing in mind all the different ages stated of Susan through the years, possibility of any of the 3 deaths I have found. Any ideas please

Thanks Austin Q. so Twickenham couldn't be too far from Isleworth. Just found that William Clarke the 2nd husband of Susan Warren actually lived next door to the family, stated as being Lodger. Unsure what happened to him because he wasn't on any of the census with Susan.

I believe Twickenham was still registered under Brentford:

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/brentford.html

It looks like Susan Clarke(Warren) was still alive after 1891 because I found her in that census but she is named as Mary Clarke born 1805 Bridely Worchestershire and living with her was Alfred Pearce grandson born 1859 Isleworth, by this time they were living in Twickenham..Goodness know where the name Mary came from. In 1911 Alfred Pearce states nephew was living with Emma Watson, b Hanwell so this must be him. They were also living in Twickenham. Found Alfred Charles Pearce born Dec 1858 Brentford. Then found a marriage of Eliza Warren married a Charles Pearce Brentford Dec 1857 so presume these are his parents, Alfred Charles Pearce name ties up with father. Found a death for an Elza Caroline Pearce June 1859 Brentford, also in Brentford an Elizabeth Pearce Mar 1859, either one of them could be the mother of Alfred that's why Susan Warren took him in. The age of Susan Warren / Clarke varies so much in all the census's it was difficult to find a death for Susan Clarke, do any of you know which registration district Twickenham would have come under in those days. Obviously Twickenham was the last place Alfred her grandson was living so Susan Clarke must have been living there when she died

Thanks Sylvain, that is a help, never done it that way before. DEA, the 1841 census, looking at it ,there is a William Smith living next door to the Warrens, wonder if he is a brother of Susannah Warren nee Smith, they both have an N written against them so not born in Middlesex county

John .................

I found the baptisms on ancestry, and it also looks as though the other helpers found much on ancestry .......

...... it might be a matter of using the wild card *

eg, Ph*be

or Sus*

Yeah, this could be the Sus* that died in 1864

Susan Clark

Age 3

Birth year 1861

Death year 1864

Burial year 1864

Burial date 13 Feb 1864

Residence Old Brentford

Parish Old Brentford, St George


Certificates needed!

John- The death of Susannah Clark in 1864 could be wrong. This could be her (even though year of birth and place of birth is out) with the same grandchild in 1881:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
5, Richmond Cottages, Isleworth, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Susan Clarke Head Widow Female 78 1803 Parish Relief Hounslow, Middlesex, England
Alfred Pearce Grand Son Single Male 23 1858 Gardener Hounslow, Middlesex, England
-------------------------------

I'll try and do a bit more digging tomorrow

Wow, thank you so much everyone, can't believe what you have found, Certainly didn't find any of this on Ancestry nor Family Seach. Not surprised I was foxed with it all, never thought to look for a 2nd marriage and Pheobe spelt so many different ways. I am so grateful because trying to find the family for a few years, even a lady on the Ravenhill side was unable to find them either, she will be so pleased. I did find the Baptism for Pheobe though , that's how I knew the names of her parents and of course I knew name of her husband. They were my Great grandparents. Thanks a million

Thanks girls :-)

Dea, I kept looking at the same 1841 census too!

Ooops, forgot to paste this


Deaths Mar 1864
Clark Susanna Brentford 3a 57

No address on Baptism Dea. Sarah Emma 1840 also, Old Brentford (Baptism 18th Oct. Born 3rd Sept. Father occ. Labourer)

Chris :)


Thames & Medway Marriages Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) James
Last name Warren
Marriage year 1837
Marriage date 20 Nov 1837
Place Ealing
Spouse's first name(s) Susannah
Spouse's last name Smith
County Middlesex
Source St.Mary Ealing 1813-1857

Dea, I think you might be correct.

I think this is the baptism for Emma:

Name: Sarah Emma Warren
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 18 Oct 1840
Born: Sept 3rd
Father's name: James Warren
Mother's name: Susan Warren
Parish or Poor Law Union: Ealing St Mary
Borough: Ealing
Register Type: Parish Registers

EDIT: Unfortunately no address on this or George's baptism

Nice one Ginns :-)

Dea x

Well found Gins- somebody was half asleep transcribing that one!

Just to be clear, they are not Glithero on the image (The family above are Glithero). This is the transcription without the errors:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cottages of Content, 4, Heath Lane, Isleworth, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Susan Clarke Head Widow Laundress Female 40 1821 - Roch, Worcestershire, England
George Clarke Son Unmarried Lab Male 22 1839 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Emma Clarke Daughter Unmarried Serv Female 20 1841 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Alfred Clarke Son Unmarried Lab Male 18 1843 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Phobe Clarke Daughter Unmarried Serv Female 16 1845 Servant Isleworth, Middlesex, England
Alfred Pearce Grandson - Male 2 1859 Scholar Isleworth, Middlesex, England

I can't find them on 1841 but I keep looking at this: (although wife here is Sarah??)

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Garden Cottage, Hanwell, Brentford, Middlesex, England

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Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
James Warren Male 40 1801 Middlesex, England Lab.
Transcription
Sarah Warren Female 30 1811 -
Transcription
Sarah Warren Female 5 1836 Middlesex, England
Transcription
George Warren Male 3 1838 Middlesex, England
Transcription
Emma Warren Male 0 1841 Middlesex, England (8 months)


NB - These people are also living there in seperate household and there 'is' a Susannah, and a 'Smith' ??


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Garden Cottage, Hanwell, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
William Durban Male 20 1821 Middlesex, England Lab.
Transcription
Susan Durban Female 25 1816 -
Transcription
Edward Durban Female 0 1841 Middlesex, England (2 months)
Transcription
Mary Hyde Female 32 1809 Middlesex, England
Transcription
William Smith Male 25 1816 - Lab.

I know it doesn't quite fit but I can't 'let it go'................

Dea x

EDIT - Ancestry is playing up for me and I am trying to see if there is an address on George's baptism :-( Can anyone else get in there to check please?

Dea x