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Trying to find a James and Susan Warren.They had a daughter Pheobe or Phebe Warren born 6th April 1845 in Isleworth Middlesex, Unable to find them in any of the census records. Would any Middlesex records have been destroyed. Phoebe married my Great grandad Edwin James Ravenhill in May 1863 Heston Middlesex and it stated her father being James Warren but didn't state deceased. Any help please would be appreciated

This looks like the family


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Link Lane, Isleworth, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Susan Warren Head Widow Female 34 1817 Widow Rock, Worcestershire, England
Eliza Warren Daughter Unmarried Female 12 1839 Daughter Hanwell, Middlesex, England
George Warren Son - Male 10 1841 Son Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Emma Warren Daughter - Female 8 1843 Daughter Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Alfred Warren Son - Male 6 1845 Son Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Phabe Warren Daughter - Female 4 1847 Daughter Isleworth, Middlesex, England

Phebe's baptism from ancestry ............

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Phebe Warren
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 6 Apr 1845
Baptism Date: 30 Apr 1845
Baptism Place: Isleworth,London,England
Father: James Warren
Mother: Susan
FHL Film Number: 585452, 597917

It looks as though James died before 1851.


Information is not always accurate on marriage certificates (or indeed on any other certificate!!).

Often it depends on the question that the vicar asked, and whether the bride or groom offered unsolicited information. Many people did not give any more information that was asked directly.

eg,

Vicar:- "What is your father's name?"
Bride:- "James Warren"

IF the Vicar had then asked:- "Is he still alive?"
Bride:- "Yes", or "No" as the case might be.

??? Is this George's baptism, a little earlier than the 1851 Census implies??

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: George Warren
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 25 Feb 1838
Father's name: James Warren
Mother's name: Susan Warren
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hanwell St Mary
Borough: Ealing
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born:- Jan 27
Father occupation:- Labourer

Did Susan marry again?

Name: Susannah Warren (Widow- address, Old Brentford)
Spouse: William Clark (Bachelor, Labourer)
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 24 Aug 1851
Parish: St Mary, Ealing
Borough: Ealing
Father Name: Robert Smith (Butcher)
Spouse Father: James Clark
Register Type: Parish Register
-------------------------------------------

First Marriage:

Name: Susannah Smith (Old Brentford)
Spouse: James Warren
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 Nov 1837
Parish: St Mary, Ealing
Borough: Ealing
Father Name: William Smith (Butcher)
Spouse Father: George Warren
Register Type: Parish Register
---------------------------------

This looks like the family in 1861 Susan did marry again by the looks of things



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cottages of Content, 4, Heath Lane, Isleworth, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Susan Glithero Head Widow Female 40 1821 - Roch, Worcestershire, England
George Glithero Son Unmarried Male 22 1839 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Emma Glithero Daughter Unmarried Female 20 1841 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Alfred Glithero Son Unmarried Male 18 1843 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Phobe Clarke Daughter Unmarried Female 16 1845 Servant Isleworth, Middlesex, England
Alfred Clarke Grandson - Male 2 1859 Scholar Isleworth, Middlesex, England

Not sure where 'Glithero' comes from they are listed as 'Clarke' except for Alfred (grandson) he is 'Pearce' on the image

There is an Elizabeth & Matilda Glithero living next door! Maybe the transcriber was having a tough day

I can't find them on 1841 but I keep looking at this: (although wife here is Sarah??)

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Garden Cottage, Hanwell, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
James Warren Male 40 1801 Middlesex, England Lab.
Transcription
Sarah Warren Female 30 1811 -
Transcription
Sarah Warren Female 5 1836 Middlesex, England
Transcription
George Warren Male 3 1838 Middlesex, England
Transcription
Emma Warren Male 0 1841 Middlesex, England (8 months)


NB - These people are also living there in seperate household and there 'is' a Susannah, and a 'Smith' ??


1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Garden Cottage, Hanwell, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
William Durban Male 20 1821 Middlesex, England Lab.
Transcription
Susan Durban Female 25 1816 -
Transcription
Edward Durban Female 0 1841 Middlesex, England (2 months)
Transcription
Mary Hyde Female 32 1809 Middlesex, England
Transcription
William Smith Male 25 1816 - Lab.

I know it doesn't quite fit but I can't 'let it go'................

Dea x

EDIT - Ancestry is playing up for me and I am trying to see if there is an address on George's baptism :-( Can anyone else get in there to check please?

Dea x

Well found Gins- somebody was half asleep transcribing that one!

Just to be clear, they are not Glithero on the image (The family above are Glithero). This is the transcription without the errors:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cottages of Content, 4, Heath Lane, Isleworth, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Susan Clarke Head Widow Laundress Female 40 1821 - Roch, Worcestershire, England
George Clarke Son Unmarried Lab Male 22 1839 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Emma Clarke Daughter Unmarried Serv Female 20 1841 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Alfred Clarke Son Unmarried Lab Male 18 1843 Servant Hanwell, Middlesex, England
Phobe Clarke Daughter Unmarried Serv Female 16 1845 Servant Isleworth, Middlesex, England
Alfred Pearce Grandson - Male 2 1859 Scholar Isleworth, Middlesex, England

Nice one Ginns :-)

Dea x

Dea, I think you might be correct.

I think this is the baptism for Emma:

Name: Sarah Emma Warren
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 18 Oct 1840
Born: Sept 3rd
Father's name: James Warren
Mother's name: Susan Warren
Parish or Poor Law Union: Ealing St Mary
Borough: Ealing
Register Type: Parish Registers

EDIT: Unfortunately no address on this or George's baptism

No address on Baptism Dea. Sarah Emma 1840 also, Old Brentford (Baptism 18th Oct. Born 3rd Sept. Father occ. Labourer)

Chris :)


Thames & Medway Marriages Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) James
Last name Warren
Marriage year 1837
Marriage date 20 Nov 1837
Place Ealing
Spouse's first name(s) Susannah
Spouse's last name Smith
County Middlesex
Source St.Mary Ealing 1813-1857

Thanks girls :-)

Dea, I kept looking at the same 1841 census too!

Ooops, forgot to paste this


Deaths Mar 1864
Clark Susanna Brentford 3a 57

Wow, thank you so much everyone, can't believe what you have found, Certainly didn't find any of this on Ancestry nor Family Seach. Not surprised I was foxed with it all, never thought to look for a 2nd marriage and Pheobe spelt so many different ways. I am so grateful because trying to find the family for a few years, even a lady on the Ravenhill side was unable to find them either, she will be so pleased. I did find the Baptism for Pheobe though , that's how I knew the names of her parents and of course I knew name of her husband. They were my Great grandparents. Thanks a million

John- The death of Susannah Clark in 1864 could be wrong. This could be her (even though year of birth and place of birth is out) with the same grandchild in 1881:

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
5, Richmond Cottages, Isleworth, Brentford, Middlesex, England

Susan Clarke Head Widow Female 78 1803 Parish Relief Hounslow, Middlesex, England
Alfred Pearce Grand Son Single Male 23 1858 Gardener Hounslow, Middlesex, England
-------------------------------

I'll try and do a bit more digging tomorrow

Yeah, this could be the Sus* that died in 1864

Susan Clark

Age 3

Birth year 1861

Death year 1864

Burial year 1864

Burial date 13 Feb 1864

Residence Old Brentford

Parish Old Brentford, St George


Certificates needed!

John .................

I found the baptisms on ancestry, and it also looks as though the other helpers found much on ancestry .......

...... it might be a matter of using the wild card *

eg, Ph*be

or Sus*

Thanks Sylvain, that is a help, never done it that way before. DEA, the 1841 census, looking at it ,there is a William Smith living next door to the Warrens, wonder if he is a brother of Susannah Warren nee Smith, they both have an N written against them so not born in Middlesex county

It looks like Susan Clarke(Warren) was still alive after 1891 because I found her in that census but she is named as Mary Clarke born 1805 Bridely Worchestershire and living with her was Alfred Pearce grandson born 1859 Isleworth, by this time they were living in Twickenham..Goodness know where the name Mary came from. In 1911 Alfred Pearce states nephew was living with Emma Watson, b Hanwell so this must be him. They were also living in Twickenham. Found Alfred Charles Pearce born Dec 1858 Brentford. Then found a marriage of Eliza Warren married a Charles Pearce Brentford Dec 1857 so presume these are his parents, Alfred Charles Pearce name ties up with father. Found a death for an Elza Caroline Pearce June 1859 Brentford, also in Brentford an Elizabeth Pearce Mar 1859, either one of them could be the mother of Alfred that's why Susan Warren took him in. The age of Susan Warren / Clarke varies so much in all the census's it was difficult to find a death for Susan Clarke, do any of you know which registration district Twickenham would have come under in those days. Obviously Twickenham was the last place Alfred her grandson was living so Susan Clarke must have been living there when she died

I believe Twickenham was still registered under Brentford:

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/brentford.html