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I believe the marriage ArgyllGran found is the correct one. In his will it mentioned his wife Alice Ann. Looks like she re-married quite soon after losing her previous husband and died only a year after Thomas.


Chris

This might be his second marriage:

Marriages Sep 1954 (>99%)
BURTON Thomas B FAIRLIE E. Retford 3c 359
Fairlie Alice A Burton E. Retford 3c 359



????
Marriages Jun 1938 (>99%)
Dean Alice A Fairlie Chesterfield 7b 2257
Fairlie Humphrey Dean Chesterfield 7b 2257

Deaths Jun 1954 (>99%)
Fairlie Humphrey 78 E.Retford 3c 90


Maybe ???
Births Jun 1885 (>99%)
Dean Alice Ann Belper 7b 638

Possibly ????
Alice Burton
in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Alice Burton
Birth Date: abt 1885
Date of Registration: Jun 1968
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Derby
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 339

Chrissie- who did he remarry?

Did he marry before or after Nellie's death?

Thank you all so much for what you have found. My friend who I have been trying to help will be delighted with the info I can now pass on from you.

Having read his will it confirmed for her that he re-married but it will be nice for her to find out that he was buried with his first wife.

JoonieCloonie thank you for helping me to understand how to read the 1939 Register better, I'm sure you are correct that Tom was the first one listed. My friend may well now try and have the record opened. The only closed record I knew would have been Kathleen's daughter Rosemary.


Chris

This is what the grave stone says,there is a photo of it on a tree on ancestry.

In loving memory of Ellen Burton (Nellie) nee Carson beloved wife of Thomas Bernard Burton who died 18/5/1950 age 73
Beautiful memories only are left of the one we loved and will never forget,
and of the above Thomas Bernard Burton who died 3/6/1967 age 87 years,reunited.

Maryb.

Thanks, JC - always glad to learn something new!

actually ArgyllGran 'calculated relationship' means that the parent was entered on the child's page as their parent, and the findagrave website then creates the mirror entry on the parent's page - or vice versa

it is the website system that does the 'calculation'

Olive's page says
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=137606643

Family links:
Parents:
Thomas Bernard Burton (1880 - 1967)
Ellen Carson Burton (1878 - 1950)
Sibling:
Olive Burton Pykett (1904 - 1991)
(for some reason the site always lists the person as their own sibling)
Joyce Burton Clayton (1909 - 1994)*
*Calculated relationship

So the relationship between Olive and Joyce has been calculated from the fact that they both show Thomas and Ellen as parents.

see

Thomas http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=137341542
Ellen http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=137386015
Joyce http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=137609102


unfortunately there are no photos of the graves, which could be the source of the info if the stone says "daughter of"

the person who created and managed the memorial page has 225 memorials created and managed, so might or might not be family, but more likely not maybe

there are no other Burtons, Claytons or Pyketts in their list of memorials managed, so it seems most likely that the info did come from the grave marker

Ah, now having looked at findagrave's site, I see that Joyce and Olive are listed as "calculated relationship", so the fact they're mentioned isn't any official listing, but just what the person who contributed the details to findagrave thought.

the way the 1939 seems to go, from checking the preceding household (schedule 360, Gaston Reuben Wilson + 2 closed records) and where the next household (362) starts, Nellie's household (361) is actually listed in the record book as

closed
Nellie Burton
closed
Kathleen Bower/Nichols
closed

Ordinarily it would be the male head of household listed first

do you know who the other closed individuals are?

it seems to me that Tom might be the closed record ahead of Nellie, the first name listed in the household, and his record just never got updated

I don't know whether this kind of oversight happens - he was born 1880 so is obviously deceased - but it could be worth checking

have you considered applying to open the record?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk//PaidSearch/FOI1939Register

Tom's burial:

Thomas Bernard Burton

Name: Thomas Bernard Burton
Birth Date: 1880
Birth Place: Nether Langwith, Nottinghamshire, England
Death Date: 3 Jun 1967
Death Place: East Riding of Yorkshire, England
Cemetery: Retford Road Manton Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Worksop, Bassetlaw District, Nottinghamshire, England
Has Bio?: N
Spouse: Ellen Burton
Children: Olive Pykett
Joyce Clayton


Had daughters Kathleen and "Zemsie" predeceased him?
(Zemsie is Jennie in Ancestry's transcription of 1911 census, and also in the parish register of her birth, but she's Zennie in GRO Index at both birth and marriage.)

EDIT: Also at her death - and she didn't die before Tom:

Zennie May Riley
in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Zennie May Riley
Birth Date: 10 Sep 1907
Date of Registration: Jan 1994
Age at Death: 86
Registration district: Newark
Inferred County: Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire
Register Number: 4C
District and Subdistrict: 6882
Entry Number: 288

And on looking again at image of 1911, she is indeed Zennie.

Nellie Burton died 18/5/1950 of 174,Southwell -Road west Mansfield wife of Thomas Bernard Burton effects £605 to the said Thomas B Burton retired farmer.

So they were still together and wasn't they also buried together.

Maryb.

(perhaps Derek might be able to shed more light, or more details from Baptism)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1191073?d=asc

Chris :)

(don't forget to give him your link for Reference)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1358889?d=asc

Thank you Chris Ho that's something to look into.

Thank you JoonieClooney I don't know what happened there, I've edited it now. It looks like a birth certificate is needed.

Thanks everyone for your help


Chris

just because your first post is muddled, this is the 1939 household

Kathleen Nichols (Bower) 25 May 1902 Female Udd Single 361 4
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Nellie Burton 05 Nov 1876 Female Udd Married 361 2


if they were estranged and he was presenting himself as a widower, this could be a possibiity in 1939 ... the dob matches the quarter of birth registration

Burton Household (1 Person)
Bury New Road , Salford C.B., Lancashire, England
Tom Burton 21 Apr 1880 Male Petrol Salesman Widowed

there doesn't seem to be another death that would match that person

of course I agree that getting his birth cert for his exact dob is important :-)

(relating in family?)

Chris :)

14 July 1939 - Sheffield Daily Telegraph - Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Child Dies From Scalds
The death occurred in Mansfield General Hospital yesterday of Greta Burton aged 3½ years, of the Devonshire Arms, Langwith, who was severely scalded a month ago when she fell into a tub of hot water.


Births Mar 1936 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Burton Greta Wholey Mansfield 7b 129


Deaths Sep 1939 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------
Burton Greta 3 Mansfield 7b 58


Marriages Sep 1934 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Burton Thomas B Wholey Mansfield 7b 268
Wholey Edith E Barton Mansfield 7b 268


(perhaps couple below)

1939 Register (Find My Past)
Devonshire Arms Hotel , Blackwell R.D., Derbyshire, England
Edith E Burton 16 Nov 1909 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Thomas D Burton 05 Aug 1912 Male General Farmer & Licensed Victualler


Births Mar 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
WHOLEY Edith Emily Southwell 7b 501


Births Sep 1912 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Burton Thomas B Carson Mansfield 7b 196


Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
Burton Tom Bernard Chesterfield 7b 1476
Carson Nelly Chesterfield 7b 1476


Derbyshire Registrars Marriage Index Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Thomas Bernard
Last name Burton
Marriage year 1934
Parish Scarcliffe St.Leonard
Place Scarcliffe
Spouse's first name Edith Emily
Spouse's last name Wholey
Reference PC46/04/032
Register Office Chesterfield
County Derbyshire

(Father)

Derbyshire Registrars Birth Index Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) TOM BERNERD
Last name BURTON
Birth year 1880
Place CARBURTON & CLOWNE
Reference CARBB/16/479
Register office Chesterfield
Subdistrict Carburton & Clowne
County Derbyshire
Record set Derbyshire Registrars Birth Index


Derbyshire Registrars Marriage Index Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) Tom Bernard
Last name Burton
Marriage year 1898
Parish Register Office
Place Chesterfield
Spouse's first name Nelly
Spouse's last name Carson
Reference RO/32/090
Register Office 393
County Derbyshire

The record is closed if they are unsure that the person is deceased. So one of them may be Thomas and they have not connected the death record to him.

As a general rule; Records of people younger than 100 and still alive, or who died after 1991 are officially closed.

So if someone HAS died since 1991 or a record is closed because they have not recorded the death it is possible to request it be opened.

"You need to prove that individuals listed in the records are deceased in order to submit your request to us and for the record(s) to be opened. We can only accept a copy of an official death certificate or overseas equivalent so please ensure you have this documentation before proceeding. The only suitable form of evidence is an official death certificate (files supported: .jpg, .png, .gif). If we do not receive this valid proof of death, we will be unable to proceed with a search"

Jude

I only know the first closed record relates to Kathleen's daughter Rosemary, I've no idea who the other three relate to.

Apart from someone being a minor, what other reasons would a record be closed please.


Chris

I agree with AustinQ that you need his birth cert for exact DOB - though there are a large number of Tom or Thomas Burtons to sift through.

Was the 1939 registration the same as a census in that a person was recorded at whatever address they happened to be at on National Registration Day? (I should know that.) Or would someone be registered at their normal home address even if they weren't there that day?

Just wondering if Tom was away from home for a lengthy period, or maybe only overnight.
But as AustinQ says, you also need to know who the closed records are for - he might be with his wife after all.

Thanks AustinQ I was hoping that at his age he wouldn't still be in the forces.


Chris

His birth certificate might help to get his full date of birth- but remember:

"The Register was not meant to record members of the armed forces and the records do not feature:

British Army barracks
Royal Navy stations
Royal Air Force stations
members of the armed forces billeted in homes, including their own homes

However, the records do include:

members of the armed forces on leave
civilians on military bases"

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/

Could he have already signed up? Do you know who the closed records are for on the 1939 register that have Kathleen on?