Find Ancestors

I'm trying to find my Father's ancestors. My Father Herbert Orritt born 1933, came from Southport. I've managed to go back to a family of Ball's living in Southport. In 1881 there is a John and Margaret Ball (father and mother) Alice Ball, the daughter (age 23) had three brothers, Peter (age 20), John (age 5) and Thomas (age 4). In 1891, however, Alice who is still living with her family has changed her surname along with John and Thomas to Orritt!!! In 1901 a daughter appears called Maggie Orritt
It appears that Alice may have had her children illegitimately as there is no sign of a marriage unless it has been transcribed incorrectly. John Orritt does however mention on his marriage certificate that his father was John. I notice that Margaret Ball (Alice's mother) came from Lathom and wondered if there was a connection with the Orritt's from Lathom.
If anyone can help I would be most grateful.
Sue Stacey

Name: Alice Ball
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Female
Age: 12
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Ormskirk
Sub-District: Meols, North
Parish: North Meols
County: Lancashire

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Ball Head M 41 Southport, Lancashire
Margaret Ball Wife F 37 Latham, Lancashire
Alice Ball Daughter F 12 Southport, Lancashire
Peter Ball Son M 9 Southport, Lancashire

well if this is her she's referred to as "wife"
Name: Alice Ball
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 31 Mar 1901
Civil Parish: Southport
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Cuthberts
Sub-District: North Meols
Registration District: Ormskirk
Residence County: Lancashire
Age: 42
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire
Record Type: Household

this one's the right age too but still Ball

Name: Alice Ball
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
County: Lancashire
Parish: Southport
Sub-District: North Meols
Registration District: Ormskirk
Gender: Female
Age: 53
Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire
Record Type: Household

birth year a bit out here

Name: Alise Orritt
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
County: Lancashire
Parish: Southport
Sub-District: Formby
Registration District: Ormskirk
Gender: Female
Age: 54
Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire
Record Type: Household

Name: Maggie Orritt
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
County: Lancashire
Parish: Southport
Sub-District: Formby
Registration District: Ormskirk
Gender: Female
Age: 19
Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire
Record Type: Household

Name: John Orritt
County: Lancashire
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1861
Sub-District: 9 Lathom
Parish: Lathom
Ecclesiastical Parish: St James Lathom
Registration District: Ormskirk
Age: 5
Gender: Male
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birthplace: Lathom, Lancashire
Schedule Type: Household

Name: John Orritt
Age (Original): 25
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1856
Birthplace: Lathom, Lancashire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Step Son
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Farm Laborer
Address: Scarth Hill
Event Place: Lathom, Lancashire, England
Record Type: Household
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3756 / 81
Page Number: 10

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Edmund Heathcote Head M 64 Aughton, Lancashire, England
Ellen Heathcote Wife F 62 Netherton, Lancashire, England
John Orritt Step Son M 25 Lathom, Lancashire, England
Henry Orritt Step Son M 23 Lathom, Lancashire, England
Mary Orritt Step Daughter F 23 Netherton, Lancashire, England
John Orritt Grand Son M 2 Netherton, Lancashire, England
Henry Orritt Grand Son M 0 Lathom, Lancashire, England

GS Film number: 1341899

Do you have your grandparent's marriage certificate please? What age was John when he married Florence and what was his occupation and that of his father?

Marriages Sep 1934 (>99%)
Goddard Florence R Orritt Southport 8b 1957
Orritt John Goddard Southport 8b 1957

What was the occupation given for John's father?

Who were the witnesses?

We can't give proper help until you tell us how old John was when he married

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1349195

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
19 Bedford Road Birkdale, Southport, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Alise Orritt Head Single Female 54 1857 Southport Lancs Laundress
Transcription
Maggie Orritt Daughter Single Female 19 1892 Southport Lancs Laundress
Transcription
Maggie Ball Mother Married Female 78 1833 Bickerstaffe Lancs -



1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
19, Bedford Road, Birkdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Orritt Head Single Male 23 1878 Platelayer On Railway Southport, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Alice A Orritt Mother Widow Female 44 1857 - Southport, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret Orritt Sister Single Female 8 1893 - Birkdale, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret Ball Grand Mother Widow Female 68 1833 - Lathom, Lancashire, England



1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Stamford Road, Birkdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alice Orritt Head Single Female 30 1861 Charwoman Southport, Lancashire, England
Transcription
John Orritt Son Single Male 15 1876 Painters Errand Boy Southport, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Thomas Orritt Son - Male 13 1878 Grocers Errand Boy Southport, Lancashire, England


John and Margaret Ball are also on this census in the same household.




1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
34, House Stanford Road, Birkdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Ball Head Married Male 51 1830 Labourer Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret Ball Wife Married Female 48 1833 Labourers Wife Lancashire, England
Transcription
Alice Ball Daughter Single Female 23 1858 Painter Lancashire, England
Transcription
Peter Ball Son Single Male 20 1861 Carter Lancashire, England
Transcription
John Ball Son Single Male 5 1876 Scholar Lancashire, England
Transcription
Thomas Ball Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Lancashire, England

Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
Orritt Margaret Ormskirk 8b 836


In 1911, Alice says she has had three children........all living


Births Mar 1877 (>99%)
Orritt Thomas Ormskirk 8b 817


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Stamford Road, Birkdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alice Orritt Head Single Female 30 1861 Charwoman Southport, Lancashire, England Transcription
John Orritt Son Single Male 15 1876 Painters Errand Boy Southport, Lancashire, England Transcription
Thomas Orritt Son - Male 13 1878 Grocers Errand Boy Southport, Lancashire, England


John was born c1876, which would have meant that when he married he was nearly 60 years old..............

???

Print transcription View image Attach to tree
First name(s) THOMAS
Last name ORRITT
Birth year 1877
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ORMSKIRK
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Page 817
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006


??

First name(s) THOMAS
Last name BALL
Birth year 1877
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ORMSKIRK
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Page 789


First name(s) THOMAS
Last name BALL
Birth year 1877
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ORMSKIRK
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Page 808


First name(s) THOMAS
Last name BALL
Birth year 1877
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ORMSKIRK
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8B
Page 802

There are a few Thomas Balls around in 1881 but I can't find a Thomas Orritt.

Sorry everyone for confusing you with two threads but it's the first time I've been on here, I've sent numerous messages out to other groups over the past year with no response so didn't expect to get any replies.

Thank you for the information with census results. I have researched quite a lot over the last year with little progress.

On the marriage certificate dated 1st September 1934 John Orritt was 32 and Florence Rosaline (Not Rosalind as stated on her death cert) was 34. John Orritt was a theatre attendant and his father Thomas Orritt (deceased) was a railway labourer. The witnesses were F Middleton and C. S Wright.

Is this John's baptism:


Name:John Orritt
Baptism Date:20 Jul 1902
Parish:Birkdale, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Father:Thomas Orritt - Labourer
Mother:Jane Orritt
Register Type:Parish Registers

Address given as 23 Liverpool Rd South

That family in 1911:

Name:John Orritt
Age in 1911:9
Estimated birth year:abt 1902
Relation to Head:Son
Gender:Male
Birth Place:Birkdale, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Southport
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England
Street address:82 Stamford Rd
Registration district:Ormskirk

Thomas Orritt 34 - married 10 years
Jane Orritt 37
John Orritt 9

John & Jane's marriage:

Marriages Sep 1901 (>99%)
Barlow Jane Ormskirk 8b 1426
ORRITT Thomas Ormskirk 8b 1426

ORRITT Thomas BARLOW Jane Birkdale St Peter

The image is on Ancestry - no father given for Thomas.

Yes Potty, that's the one.
Thomas's brother, John Edward Orritt marries Morella Page on 15/11/1899 in Manchester, (Chorlton Cum Hardy) His father is mentioned as John Orritt!!!

I think you will need to get John Edward and Thomas's birth certs to confirm MMN:

Births Mar 1876 (>99%)
ORRITT John Edward Ormskirk 8b 797

Births Mar 1877
Orritt Thomas Ormskirk 8b 817

Annoyingly, although Lancs BMD does give MMN for many births, ir doesn't for these 2!

I doubt that there will be a father named on the birth certificates as their mother is described as single in 1891.

Thomas Orritt
AGE: 13
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1878
RELATION: Son
MOTHER'S NAME: Alice Orritt
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Southport, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Birkdale
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St Peter
TOWN: Birkdale
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS:

OCCUPATION:

CONDITION AS TO MARRIAGE:

EDUCATION:

EMPLOYMENT STATUS:

View image
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Ormskirk
SUB REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Formby
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 12
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
PIECE: 3033
FOLIO: 17
PAGE NUMBER: 27
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Alice Orritt 30
John Orritt 15
Thomas Orritt. 13


Not uncommon for a "made up " name for a father to be given on a marriage certificate to save face.

Thanks again for any help.
I thought I'd need to send off for their birth certificates, just trying to put feelers out first. My father always said that the family name came from Ormskirk but then he may have just been told that.

This looks like Alice's mother's marriage. John is a fisherman same as he is on the 1871 census.

John Ball
GENDER: Male
AGE: 38
BIRTH YEAR: abt 1830
EVENT TYPE: Marriage
EVENT DATE: 9 Feb 1868
PARISH: Southport, St Paul, Lancashire, England
SPOUSE: Margaret Harrar
SPOUSE AGE: 33
FATHER: Peter Ball
SPOUSE FATHER: John Harrar
REGISTER TYPE: Parish Register

So it looks like Alice was illegitimate and was born Orritt but sometimes appears on the census using stepfather's surname of Ball.