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susan
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2 Feb 2015 22:51 |
Thank you very much Rootgatherer. That looks as though it could be correct. I'm going to research more tomorrow and hopefully I'll now be able to progress. I'll let you know what I discover.
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Chris Ho :)
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2 Feb 2015 19:28 |
Marriage: 15 Nov 1899 St Clement, Chorlton-cum-Hardy, Lancs. John Edward Orritt - 21 Plumber Bachelor of 11 Moor Street, West Didsbury Morella Page - 21 Domestic Servant Spinster of 5 Cavendish Road Chorlton-cum-Hardy Groom's Father: John Orritt, Deceased, Bricklayer Bride's Father: Joshua Page, Deceased, Labourer Witness: Arthur Millward; Ethel Page Married by Banns by: F. E. Thomas Rector Performed at: the new Church Register: Marriages 1896 - 1901, Page 32, Entry 64 Source: LDS Film 1408888
(reference 1899 Marriage)
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
(from above link)
Chris :)
http://liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3266
(above from google, if any names relating)
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rootgatherer
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2 Feb 2015 18:19 |
This looks like Alice's mother's marriage. John is a fisherman same as he is on the 1871 census.
John Ball GENDER: Male AGE: 38 BIRTH YEAR: abt 1830 EVENT TYPE: Marriage EVENT DATE: 9 Feb 1868 PARISH: Southport, St Paul, Lancashire, England SPOUSE: Margaret Harrar SPOUSE AGE: 33 FATHER: Peter Ball SPOUSE FATHER: John Harrar REGISTER TYPE: Parish Register
So it looks like Alice was illegitimate and was born Orritt but sometimes appears on the census using stepfather's surname of Ball.
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susan
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2 Feb 2015 17:54 |
Thanks again for any help. I thought I'd need to send off for their birth certificates, just trying to put feelers out first. My father always said that the family name came from Ormskirk but then he may have just been told that.
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rootgatherer
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2 Feb 2015 17:19 |
I doubt that there will be a father named on the birth certificates as their mother is described as single in 1891.
Thomas Orritt AGE: 13 ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1878 RELATION: Son MOTHER'S NAME: Alice Orritt GENDER: Male WHERE BORN: Southport, Lancashire, England CIVIL PARISH: Birkdale ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St Peter TOWN: Birkdale COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire COUNTRY: England STREET ADDRESS:
OCCUPATION:
CONDITION AS TO MARRIAGE:
EDUCATION:
EMPLOYMENT STATUS:
View image REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Ormskirk SUB REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Formby ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 12 NEIGHBORS: View others on page PIECE: 3033 FOLIO: 17 PAGE NUMBER: 27 HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS: NAME AGE Alice Orritt 30 John Orritt 15 Thomas Orritt. 13
Not uncommon for a "made up " name for a father to be given on a marriage certificate to save face.
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Potty
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2 Feb 2015 15:38 |
I think you will need to get John Edward and Thomas's birth certs to confirm MMN:
Births Mar 1876 (>99%) ORRITT John Edward Ormskirk 8b 797
Births Mar 1877 Orritt Thomas Ormskirk 8b 817
Annoyingly, although Lancs BMD does give MMN for many births, ir doesn't for these 2!
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susan
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2 Feb 2015 14:58 |
Yes Potty, that's the one. Thomas's brother, John Edward Orritt marries Morella Page on 15/11/1899 in Manchester, (Chorlton Cum Hardy) His father is mentioned as John Orritt!!!
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Potty
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2 Feb 2015 14:21 |
Is this John's baptism:
Name:John Orritt Baptism Date:20 Jul 1902 Parish:Birkdale, St Peter, Lancashire, England Father:Thomas Orritt - Labourer Mother:Jane Orritt Register Type:Parish Registers
Address given as 23 Liverpool Rd South
That family in 1911:
Name:John Orritt Age in 1911:9 Estimated birth year:abt 1902 Relation to Head:Son Gender:Male Birth Place:Birkdale, Lancashire, England Civil Parish:Southport County/Island:Lancashire Country:England Street address:82 Stamford Rd Registration district:Ormskirk
Thomas Orritt 34 - married 10 years Jane Orritt 37 John Orritt 9
John & Jane's marriage:
Marriages Sep 1901 (>99%) Barlow Jane Ormskirk 8b 1426 ORRITT Thomas Ormskirk 8b 1426
ORRITT Thomas BARLOW Jane Birkdale St Peter
The image is on Ancestry - no father given for Thomas.
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susan
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2 Feb 2015 13:51 |
Sorry everyone for confusing you with two threads but it's the first time I've been on here, I've sent numerous messages out to other groups over the past year with no response so didn't expect to get any replies.
Thank you for the information with census results. I have researched quite a lot over the last year with little progress.
On the marriage certificate dated 1st September 1934 John Orritt was 32 and Florence Rosaline (Not Rosalind as stated on her death cert) was 34. John Orritt was a theatre attendant and his father Thomas Orritt (deceased) was a railway labourer. The witnesses were F Middleton and C. S Wright.
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alviegal
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2 Feb 2015 13:21 |
???
Print transcription View image Attach to tree First name(s) THOMAS Last name ORRITT Birth year 1877 Birth quarter 1 Registration month - Mother's last name - District ORMSKIRK County Lancashire Country England Volume 8B Page 817 Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
??
First name(s) THOMAS Last name BALL Birth year 1877 Birth quarter 1 Registration month - Mother's last name - District ORMSKIRK County Lancashire Country England Volume 8B Page 789
First name(s) THOMAS Last name BALL Birth year 1877 Birth quarter 1 Registration month - Mother's last name - District ORMSKIRK County Lancashire Country England Volume 8B Page 808
First name(s) THOMAS Last name BALL Birth year 1877 Birth quarter 1 Registration month - Mother's last name - District ORMSKIRK County Lancashire Country England Volume 8B Page 802
There are a few Thomas Balls around in 1881 but I can't find a Thomas Orritt.
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Jacqueline
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2 Feb 2015 13:09 |
Births Mar 1893 (>99%) Orritt Margaret Ormskirk 8b 836
In 1911, Alice says she has had three children........all living
Births Mar 1877 (>99%) Orritt Thomas Ormskirk 8b 817
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Stamford Road, Birkdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Alice Orritt Head Single Female 30 1861 Charwoman Southport, Lancashire, England Transcription John Orritt Son Single Male 15 1876 Painters Errand Boy Southport, Lancashire, England Transcription Thomas Orritt Son - Male 13 1878 Grocers Errand Boy Southport, Lancashire, England
John was born c1876, which would have meant that when he married he was nearly 60 years old..............
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alviegal
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2 Feb 2015 12:57 |
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 19 Bedford Road Birkdale, Southport, Lancashire, England
Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation Alise Orritt Head Single Female 54 1857 Southport Lancs Laundress Transcription Maggie Orritt Daughter Single Female 19 1892 Southport Lancs Laundress Transcription Maggie Ball Mother Married Female 78 1833 Bickerstaffe Lancs -
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 19, Bedford Road, Birkdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Thomas Orritt Head Single Male 23 1878 Platelayer On Railway Southport, Lancashire, England Transcription Alice A Orritt Mother Widow Female 44 1857 - Southport, Lancashire, England Transcription Margaret Orritt Sister Single Female 8 1893 - Birkdale, Lancashire, England Transcription Margaret Ball Grand Mother Widow Female 68 1833 - Lathom, Lancashire, England
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Stamford Road, Birkdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Alice Orritt Head Single Female 30 1861 Charwoman Southport, Lancashire, England Transcription John Orritt Son Single Male 15 1876 Painters Errand Boy Southport, Lancashire, England Transcription Thomas Orritt Son - Male 13 1878 Grocers Errand Boy Southport, Lancashire, England
John and Margaret Ball are also on this census in the same household.
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 34, House Stanford Road, Birkdale, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place John Ball Head Married Male 51 1830 Labourer Lancashire, England Transcription Margaret Ball Wife Married Female 48 1833 Labourers Wife Lancashire, England Transcription Alice Ball Daughter Single Female 23 1858 Painter Lancashire, England Transcription Peter Ball Son Single Male 20 1861 Carter Lancashire, England Transcription John Ball Son Single Male 5 1876 Scholar Lancashire, England Transcription Thomas Ball Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Lancashire, England
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Jacqueline
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2 Feb 2015 12:42 |
Marriages Sep 1934 (>99%) Goddard Florence R Orritt Southport 8b 1957 Orritt John Goddard Southport 8b 1957
What was the occupation given for John's father?
Who were the witnesses?
We can't give proper help until you tell us how old John was when he married
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1349195
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rootgatherer
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1 Feb 2015 23:09 |
Do you have your grandparent's marriage certificate please? What age was John when he married Florence and what was his occupation and that of his father?
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AnnCardiff
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1 Feb 2015 22:39 |
Name: John Orritt Age (Original): 25 Gender: Male Birth Year: 1856 Birthplace: Lathom, Lancashire, England Relationship to Head of Household: Step Son Marital Status: Single Occupation: Farm Laborer Address: Scarth Hill Event Place: Lathom, Lancashire, England Record Type: Household Affiliate Publication Number: RG11 Piece/Folio: 3756 / 81 Page Number: 10
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace Edmund Heathcote Head M 64 Aughton, Lancashire, England Ellen Heathcote Wife F 62 Netherton, Lancashire, England John Orritt Step Son M 25 Lathom, Lancashire, England Henry Orritt Step Son M 23 Lathom, Lancashire, England Mary Orritt Step Daughter F 23 Netherton, Lancashire, England John Orritt Grand Son M 2 Netherton, Lancashire, England Henry Orritt Grand Son M 0 Lathom, Lancashire, England
GS Film number: 1341899
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AnnCardiff
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1 Feb 2015 22:37 |
Name: John Orritt County: Lancashire Event Type: Census Event Date: 1861 Sub-District: 9 Lathom Parish: Lathom Ecclesiastical Parish: St James Lathom Registration District: Ormskirk Age: 5 Gender: Male Relationship to Head of Household: Son Birthplace: Lathom, Lancashire Schedule Type: Household
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AnnCardiff
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1 Feb 2015 22:35 |
Name: Maggie Orritt Event Type: Census Event Date: 1911 County: Lancashire Parish: Southport Sub-District: Formby Registration District: Ormskirk Gender: Female Age: 19 Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire Record Type: Household
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AnnCardiff
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1 Feb 2015 22:28 |
birth year a bit out here
Name: Alise Orritt Event Type: Census Event Date: 1911 County: Lancashire Parish: Southport Sub-District: Formby Registration District: Ormskirk Gender: Female Age: 54 Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire Record Type: Household
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AnnCardiff
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1 Feb 2015 22:25 |
this one's the right age too but still Ball
Name: Alice Ball Event Type: Census Event Date: 1911 County: Lancashire Parish: Southport Sub-District: North Meols Registration District: Ormskirk Gender: Female Age: 53 Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire Record Type: Household
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AnnCardiff
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1 Feb 2015 22:22 |
well if this is her she's referred to as "wife" Name: Alice Ball Event Type: Census Event Date: 31 Mar 1901 Civil Parish: Southport Ecclesiastical Parish: St Cuthberts Sub-District: North Meols Registration District: Ormskirk Residence County: Lancashire Age: 42 Relationship to Head of Household: Wife Birthplace: Southport, Lancashire Record Type: Household
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