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had a few in my tree but this must beat the lot of them

NAME: Mathewsalem Kilshawe
GENDER: Male
BAPTISM DATE: 20 Nov 1580
BAPTISM PLACE: Manchester Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England
FATHER: William Kilshawe
FHL FILM NUMBER: 844799

any idea what it means, can't find him anywhere

regards
maddie

20 Nov 1580 Mathewsalem son to Willm Kilshawe, Gent

Elizabeth - Lancashire OnLine Parish Clerk Project


www.lan-opc.org.uk/Manchester/Manchester/cathedral/baptisms_1573...

20 Nov 1580 : Mathewsalem son to Willm Kilshawe, Gent: 20 Nov 1580 : ... George son to Robert Hilton of Manchester: 5 Oct 1582 : Elizabeth daughter to Richard Bexwicke:

Mathewsalem s. to Wittm Kilshawe Gent 1580

Barnngere d. to Wittm Kilshawe Gent 1583

Georg s. to Wittm Kilshawe Gent 1587


Full text of "The Registers Of The Cathedral Church Of ...


archive.org/stream/TheRegistersOfTheCathedralChurchOfManchester/34...

See other formats. Full text of "The Registers Of The Cathedral Church Of Manchester"

thank you Ann,
I have their baptisms but can't find George either
MADDIE

?????????

Name: Anne Killshawe
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 26 Dec 1629
Christening Place: MANCHESTER CATHEDRAL,MANCHESTER,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name: George Killshawe

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P00546-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 844799

George Kilshawe
England Births and Christenings
Name: George Kilshawe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 04 Jun 1587
Christening Place: MANCHESTER CATHEDRAL,MANCHESTER,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Kilshawe

hi
this is a strange name too for a girl


ame: Barnngere Kilshawe
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 25 Feb 1584
Christening Place: MANCHESTER CATHEDRAL,MANCHESTER,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Kilshawe

I wonder whether it might be a version of Methuseleh??

oh look!

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NG6P-YHN

Methusela Kelshawe father of Rodger, baptised 1620 Snenton, Notts

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NY2B-97M

Mathusla Kelshawe father of Marye, baptised 1629 Snenton, Notts


could this be Mathewsalem or possibly a son?


there are also two Kelshawe baptisms with father George in Nottinghamshire in 1624 and 1625, possibly the first having died since the names are Darytie and Daretye

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J336-RLW
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JM8G-HJB

there are several other Kelshaw/Kellshawe events in Nottingnamshire up to the 1700s

and then possibly the name became Culshaw?

you might ask Wendy in her thread about Nottinghamshire archives for any info there

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1266434

and just give her the link to this thread which is this:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1348999

Name: Marye Kelshawe
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 01 Jul 1629
Christening Place: SNENTON,NOTTINGHAM,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Mathusla Kelshawe

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C06140-2 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 503815

Last name: Culshaw


This name, with variant spellings Kil(l)shaw and Culshew, is of English locational origin from a place in the parish of Winwick, Lancashire, called Culcheth. Recorded as "Culchet" in the 1201 Pipe Rolls of that county, and as "Kulcheth" in the Assize Court Rolls of Lancashire, dated 1246. The name derives from the Old British words "cil" meaning a retreat, angle or corner, plus "coed", a wood. "British", in this case, refers to the extinct Celtic language of the ancient Britons. The surname is first recorded at the beginning of the 13th Century (see below). In his "History of Lancashire", Baine states that "The place (i.e. Culcheth) is called Kilsha by the common people"! On June 18th 1545, William Kilshaw and Jane Fish were married in Croston, and on January 22nd 1569, Alice Killshaw married Hugh Cooper in Ormskirk. Hugh son of Ralph Culshaw, was christened in Wigan, and on June 18th 1674, Elline Culshaw and Henry Walmsley were married in Preston. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Henry de Culchet, which was dated 1201, in the County Records of Lancashire", during the reign of King John, known as "Lackland", 1199 - 1216. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Culshaw#ixzz3Q3b2RuOJ

I had posted the Mary Kelshawe baptism info and the link to where it is found ...

you agree with me that Matthewsalem is Methuseleh then? :-)

and it looks like my surmise about Kilshawe / Culshaw was correct !

maybe Maddie will come back and tell us how Matthewsalem fits into her tree, and whether there is a more recent Culshaw connection

Good morning all, that you for the above

William Bowker 1587 - 1624 in Manchester is a great grandparent 11 x removed, he married Barnagere

NAME: Barnagerey Killshawe
GENDER: Female
MARRIAGE DATE: 10 Nov 1611
MARRIAGE PLACE: Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England
SPOUSE: William Bowker
FHL FILM NUMBER: 438185, 844799

they had a daughter also called Barnagere born 1617 and died 1621

:Barnegarie Surname:BOWKER Abode:Hopwood Cleyden Day:18 Month:5 Year:1621 Age: Relationship:dau Related Title: Related Forenames:William Related Surname:Bowker Place:Manchester Church:Collegiate Church Notes: Occupation /

her brother Ralph is my direct line.

so I started looking for siblings of Barnagere Snr and found George and Mathewsalem but can find nothing on them apart from their baptism in Manchester.

Is it possible there is a Nottingham connection, it seems a long way from Lancashire

:-) Maddie

The image of Matthew's baptism is on Ancestry - it is very difficult to read but I think it is two names, not one, ie Matthew Salem.

thank you Potty, thats the trouble with old docs
but what a strange name
Maddie

Barnagery's baptism image is also on Ancestry - 1583 not 1584; that image is even less clear than Matthew's! I wouldn't even guess at what it was!

these are from lancs OPC

Baptism: 20 Nov 1580 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mathewsalem son to Willm Kilshawe, Gent
Baptism: 25 Feb 1583/4 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Barnngere daughter to William Kilshawe, Gent
Baptism: 4 Jun 1587 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Georg son to Willm Kilshawe, Gent

William was a gent, does that mean he was a man of meaNS
Maddie

I really think it's rather unlikely that there were two different people ...

Matthew Salem Kilshawe
and
Methusela/Methusla Kelshawe

living at the same time

so it seems to me that Matthewsalem or Matthew Salem really is just someone's not very literate understanding of 'Methuselah'

'gentleman' would mean someone of means, yes. It isn't always reliable ... an ancestor of mine reported when she married that his father was a 'gentleman', when he was in fact an agricultural labourer, it's just that the son had moved up in the world and wasn't about to say so :-)

in this case since it is consistent on all the records it would be accurate

It certainly looks to me as if both Methusela and George relocated to Nottinghamshire and had children there when they were in their 30s.

did you consider my suggestion about asking Wendy about records in Nottinghamshire?

familysearch shows Kelshaws in Notts in the late 1500s ... it could even be that yours originated there and William removed to Manchester

thank you
I think your suggestions certainly make sense
I will contact Wendy tomorrow
best wishes
maddie :-)