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Maddie
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29 Jan 2015 13:23 |
Hi Wendy thank you very much for your time best wishes mddie
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Nottsgirl
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29 Jan 2015 13:15 |
Hi Maddie and all,
The archives in Nottingham is closed at the moment for building work but I can tell you that the church records for Sneinton that are held at the archives start in 1654 and the ones on my disc start in 1654 a little bit late for the dates you are looking for.
I'm not sure what dates are at the Central Library in Nottingham but I would think they have the same dates but will check for you when I'm there next week.
Wendy
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JoonieCloonie
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28 Jan 2015 18:16 |
sounds good, and maybe Wendy will post anything she might find in this thread so we all get a peek :-)
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Maddie
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28 Jan 2015 18:12 |
thank you I think your suggestions certainly make sense I will contact Wendy tomorrow best wishes maddie :-)
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JoonieCloonie
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28 Jan 2015 15:59 |
I really think it's rather unlikely that there were two different people ...
Matthew Salem Kilshawe and Methusela/Methusla Kelshawe
living at the same time
so it seems to me that Matthewsalem or Matthew Salem really is just someone's not very literate understanding of 'Methuselah'
'gentleman' would mean someone of means, yes. It isn't always reliable ... an ancestor of mine reported when she married that his father was a 'gentleman', when he was in fact an agricultural labourer, it's just that the son had moved up in the world and wasn't about to say so :-)
in this case since it is consistent on all the records it would be accurate
It certainly looks to me as if both Methusela and George relocated to Nottinghamshire and had children there when they were in their 30s.
did you consider my suggestion about asking Wendy about records in Nottinghamshire?
familysearch shows Kelshaws in Notts in the late 1500s ... it could even be that yours originated there and William removed to Manchester
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Maddie
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28 Jan 2015 13:00 |
these are from lancs OPC
Baptism: 20 Nov 1580 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England Mathewsalem son to Willm Kilshawe, Gent Baptism: 25 Feb 1583/4 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England Barnngere daughter to William Kilshawe, Gent Baptism: 4 Jun 1587 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England Georg son to Willm Kilshawe, Gent
William was a gent, does that mean he was a man of meaNS Maddie
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Potty
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28 Jan 2015 12:26 |
Barnagery's baptism image is also on Ancestry - 1583 not 1584; that image is even less clear than Matthew's! I wouldn't even guess at what it was!
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Maddie
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28 Jan 2015 12:16 |
thank you Potty, thats the trouble with old docs but what a strange name Maddie
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Potty
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28 Jan 2015 12:08 |
The image of Matthew's baptism is on Ancestry - it is very difficult to read but I think it is two names, not one, ie Matthew Salem.
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Maddie
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28 Jan 2015 11:20 |
Good morning all, that you for the above
William Bowker 1587 - 1624 in Manchester is a great grandparent 11 x removed, he married Barnagere
NAME: Barnagerey Killshawe GENDER: Female MARRIAGE DATE: 10 Nov 1611 MARRIAGE PLACE: Cathedral,Manchester,Lancashire,England SPOUSE: William Bowker FHL FILM NUMBER: 438185, 844799
they had a daughter also called Barnagere born 1617 and died 1621
:Barnegarie Surname:BOWKER Abode:Hopwood Cleyden Day:18 Month:5 Year:1621 Age: Relationship:dau Related Title: Related Forenames:William Related Surname:Bowker Place:Manchester Church:Collegiate Church Notes: Occupation /
her brother Ralph is my direct line.
so I started looking for siblings of Barnagere Snr and found George and Mathewsalem but can find nothing on them apart from their baptism in Manchester.
Is it possible there is a Nottingham connection, it seems a long way from Lancashire
:-) Maddie
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JoonieCloonie
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27 Jan 2015 21:06 |
I had posted the Mary Kelshawe baptism info and the link to where it is found ...
you agree with me that Matthewsalem is Methuseleh then? :-)
and it looks like my surmise about Kilshawe / Culshaw was correct !
maybe Maddie will come back and tell us how Matthewsalem fits into her tree, and whether there is a more recent Culshaw connection
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AnnCardiff
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27 Jan 2015 20:48 |
Last name: Culshaw
This name, with variant spellings Kil(l)shaw and Culshew, is of English locational origin from a place in the parish of Winwick, Lancashire, called Culcheth. Recorded as "Culchet" in the 1201 Pipe Rolls of that county, and as "Kulcheth" in the Assize Court Rolls of Lancashire, dated 1246. The name derives from the Old British words "cil" meaning a retreat, angle or corner, plus "coed", a wood. "British", in this case, refers to the extinct Celtic language of the ancient Britons. The surname is first recorded at the beginning of the 13th Century (see below). In his "History of Lancashire", Baine states that "The place (i.e. Culcheth) is called Kilsha by the common people"! On June 18th 1545, William Kilshaw and Jane Fish were married in Croston, and on January 22nd 1569, Alice Killshaw married Hugh Cooper in Ormskirk. Hugh son of Ralph Culshaw, was christened in Wigan, and on June 18th 1674, Elline Culshaw and Henry Walmsley were married in Preston. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Henry de Culchet, which was dated 1201, in the County Records of Lancashire", during the reign of King John, known as "Lackland", 1199 - 1216. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.
Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Culshaw#ixzz3Q3b2RuOJ
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AnnCardiff
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27 Jan 2015 20:39 |
Name: Marye Kelshawe Gender: Female Christening Date: 01 Jul 1629 Christening Place: SNENTON,NOTTINGHAM,ENGLAND Father's Name: Mathusla Kelshawe
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C06140-2 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 503815
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JoonieCloonie
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27 Jan 2015 19:08 |
you might ask Wendy in her thread about Nottinghamshire archives for any info there
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1266434
and just give her the link to this thread which is this:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1348999
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JoonieCloonie
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27 Jan 2015 18:18 |
oh look!
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NG6P-YHN
Methusela Kelshawe father of Rodger, baptised 1620 Snenton, Notts
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NY2B-97M
Mathusla Kelshawe father of Marye, baptised 1629 Snenton, Notts
could this be Mathewsalem or possibly a son?
there are also two Kelshawe baptisms with father George in Nottinghamshire in 1624 and 1625, possibly the first having died since the names are Darytie and Daretye
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J336-RLW https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JM8G-HJB
there are several other Kelshaw/Kellshawe events in Nottingnamshire up to the 1700s
and then possibly the name became Culshaw?
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JoonieCloonie
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27 Jan 2015 18:15 |
I wonder whether it might be a version of Methuseleh??
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malyon
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27 Jan 2015 17:47 |
hi this is a strange name too for a girl
ame: Barnngere Kilshawe Gender: Female Christening Date: 25 Feb 1584 Christening Place: MANCHESTER CATHEDRAL,MANCHESTER,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND Father's Name: William Kilshawe
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malyon
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27 Jan 2015 17:39 |
George Kilshawe England Births and Christenings Name: George Kilshawe Gender: Male Christening Date: 04 Jun 1587 Christening Place: MANCHESTER CATHEDRAL,MANCHESTER,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND Father's Name: William Kilshawe
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AnnCardiff
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27 Jan 2015 17:09 |
?????????
Name: Anne Killshawe Gender: Female Christening Date: 26 Dec 1629 Christening Place: MANCHESTER CATHEDRAL,MANCHESTER,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND Father's Name: George Killshawe
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P00546-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 844799
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Maddie
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27 Jan 2015 15:54 |
thank you Ann, I have their baptisms but can't find George either MADDIE
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