Find Ancestors

Can anybody help
I have found William Pope b 1816 Ashford in Kent ..Married Frances Andrews March 24th 1837 at St Mary North End, Canterbury, Kent England. William is my Great Great Great Grandfather. I have come to a complete standstill, I would like to find Williams birth certificate to find his parents.
I have found the correct William on two shared family tree's , but they also do not show his parents.
Kindest regards Brian Pope

Does he have brothers and sisters which you could send for their birth certificate ...if after 184??? whatever !!?? as they would more likely to have been registered!

This is a possibility

Name: William Pope
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 11 Sep 1812
Christening Place: Ashford, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Pope
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Maria

If you got the 1816 from the 1841 census, remember that ages were rounded down and he could be born up to 4 years earlier.

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
about William Pope
Name:

William Pope
Gender: Male
Baptism Date:

31 Jul 1816
Baptism Place:

Folkestone, Kent, England
Father: William Pope

Mother: Elizabeth Pope
FHL Film Number:

1850119
Reference ID:

item 2 p 67

Looks like Frances may not have been William's first wife:

Kent, England, Extracted Parish Records

Text: Wm Pope of Ashford wid & Fran Andrews of St Mary North Cant sp, at St Mary N. 20 Mar 1837.

Book: Volume 36

Collection: Kent, Surrey, London: - Canterbury Marriage Licences, 1810-1837 (Marriage)

How do you know WHERE he was born?

1841 census simply says Kent, and, as has been pointed out earlier, age of over 15s was supposed to be rounded down to nearest 5 years:

Census 1841:

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name POPE
Gender Male
Age 25
Birth year 1816
Birth county KENT
House Number -
House name -
Street NEW STREET
Parish or township ASHFORD

WILLIAM POPE Male 25 1816 KENT
FRANCES POPE Female 25 1816 KENT
EDWD POPE Male 4 1837 KENT
CAROLINE POPE Female 1 1840 KENT
HENRY POPE Male 0 1841 KENT
SUSANA DENIS Female 14 1827 KENT

and by 1851, Frances was a widow, so what was the evidence for William's birth location, as it isn't given in the census, other than being Kent :

Census 1851;

FRANCES POPE HEAD WIDOW Female 35 1816 WIDDOW OF A VETERINARY SURGEON SMEETH
EDWARD W POPE SON - Male 13 1838 SCHOLAR WYE
CAROLINE POPE DAUGHTER - Female 11 1840 SCHOLAR ASHFORD
HENRY D POPE SON - Male 8 1843 SCHOLAR ASHFORD
WILLIAM C POPE SON - Male 7 1844 SCHOLAR SMEETH
FANNY E POPE DAUGHTER - Female 4 1847 - SMEETH
ROBERT GRAY SERVANT UNMARRIED Male 30 1821 VETERINARY SURGEON PRINCES RISBOROUGH, BUCKINGHAMSHIRE

First name(s) FRANCES
Last name POPE
Relationship to head HEAD
Marital condition WIDOW
Gender Female
Age 35
Birth year 1816
Occupation WIDDOW OF A VETERINARY SURGEON
Birth town SMEETH
Birth county -
House number -
House name SMEETH
Street -
Village -
Parish SMEETH
Ecclesiastical disctrict -
City or borough -
Town -
County Kent
Parliamentary borough -
Municipal ward -
Registration district EAST ASHFORD
Enumeration district 5
Series HO107
Piece number 1622
Folio 178
Page 8

This article from the Kentish Gazette of 17 April 1849 shows he had a brother John William Cooper Pope:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/7040730

Just to complicate things, that brother also married a Francis:

England Marriages, 1538–1973

Name: John William Cooper Pope
Spouse's Name: Frances Whitehead
Event Date: 27 Jun 1830
Event Place: Faversham, Kent, England

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I00785-1
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1786453
Reference ID: item 1 p 178

Baptism???

Parents are William and Maria, like the 1812 Ashford baptism for a William Pope posted earlier by Beverley:



Name: John Willm. Cooper Pope
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 22 Jan 1807
Christening Place: ST ALPHAGE,GREENWICH,KENT,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Willm. Pope
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Maria
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00632-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 254589, 254590, 363062
Reference ID:

????

England Marriages, 1538–1973 "

Name: William Pope<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Maria Cooper<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 10 Aug 1801
Event Place: Saint George The Martyr,Southwark,Surrey,England
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name:
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M02244-1
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 307689
Reference ID:

http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/01/ASH/01/00p.htm

Has several baptisms for children of William Pope a blacksmith, and wife Maria

J W C Pope and William Pope are described as veterinary surgeons in census and in that article MarieCeleste found, but in the index above, both JWC and William are described as blacksmiths on the christening of some of their children eg:

1831 Apl 13 c . . . . . Charles Cooper P., son of John William Cooper P. vet. surgeon
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . & Frances

1832 Dec 28 c . . . . . John William Cooper P., son of J W , blacksmith & Frances

1834 Jan 15 c . . . . . Edwin Cooper P., son of J W C, blacksmith & Frances
1835 Jan 14 c . . . . . Kate, dau. of -do-. & 1835 Apl 30 b . . . .

1836 Feb 17 c . . . . . Francis Cooper P., son of J W C, blacksmith & Frances
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . & 1836 Jun 24 b

(looks like JWC's wife Frances was buried in 1836)

1836 Jan 19 b . . . . . Frances, 27 yrs.

1838 Aug 12 c . . . . . Maria, dau. of JWC, blacksmith & Tamzen


1839 Jan 6 c . . . . . Caroline, dau. of William, blacksmith & Frances

Am feeling that 1812 baptism for William in Ashford is looking more promising.

The second article in the snip I posted showed J W C Pope as a Veterinary Surgeon Shoeing Smith, etc ..

So it seems to tie in nicely.

The William Pope who married Maria Cooper in 1801 was a widower, she was a spinster:


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: William Pope
Spouse Name: Maria Cooper
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Aug 1801
Parish: St George the Martyr
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Register

It would be helpful if Brian could let us know where he obtained the year and town of birth.

Presumably from the 1841 census:


William Pope 25 Ashford, West, Ashford
Frances Pope 25 Ashford, West, Ashford
Edwd Pope 4 Ashford, West, Ashford
Caroline Pope 1 Ashford, West, Ashford
Henry Pope 0 Ashford, West, Ashford

Name: William Pope
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1841
Gender: Male
Age: 25
Birthplace: Kent
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Ashford, West
Sub-District: Ashford
Parish: Ashford
County: Kent

So actually all we know is that he was born between 1812 and 1816 and he LIVED in Ashford.

Thanks to MarieCeleste we know William had a brother named John William Cooper Pope who was a veterinary surgeon and shoeing smith, and was christened at Greenwich as the child of William and Maria Pope (borne out by census entries as well as baptism record). he had several children baptised at Ashford by two wives.

The William Pope whose 1812 baptism you found was born to a William and Maria Pope in Ashford, and according to the christening of his child Catherine in 1840 at Ashford, was a blacksmith, and according to the 1851 census, and the articles MarieCeleste found, was also a veterinary surgeon.

A William Pope, blacksmith and wife Maria had children christened at Ashford; so my surmise is that he was the father of both William and John William Cooper Pope, and the shoe smithing part of their activities was in effect, carrying on the family business.

I agree it is circumstantial, but I believe it stacks up reasonably well.

I think MarieCeleste should be congratulated on her find with those articles.

It wasn't difficult - those articles popped straight up in a newspaper search, but thanks Kucinta!

Tantalisingly, there's another article in the index for the 16 December 1834 edition of the Kentish Gazette

"JOHN and WILLIAM POPE, VETERINARY SURGEONS, HIGH STREET, ASHFORD, JOHN and WILLIAM POPE beg to return their sincere thanks to their Friends and the Public general, for the very ...."

But I can't find the actual article in the pages (It'll be there somewhere)

Well done indeed, MarieCeleste :)

Hello Brian and welcome to the Community boards.




I'll let Brian know that he has replies to his query. :-)