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Peter
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28 Jan 2014 23:40 |
Wow mgnv, thank you so much. I am flying out to the Netherlands tomorrow for several weeks with a work contract so may be offline (not if I can avoid it), but I will return to this. I intend on visiting the Chester RO soon to check into these families more there, and your use of the maps is astounding! Absolutely amazing to see and I've not heard of that idea before (I mean digitially).
With this, thank you for placing Samuel next to his father Richard (c.1785-1847) - wow, fascinating. I am just sorry I am going to have to leave it for a while but thank you!
Very best wishes,
Peter
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mgnv
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28 Jan 2014 14:38 |
Peter - I presume you've been checking out the appropriate collections at: https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND
Although these say "no image available", they're just meaning via their site. The image is available on FMP (and GR, I presume).
E.g. Sam & Sue's 1841 marr is by banns, and the witnesses are Samuel Burkhill (I think - there is one in ho107/97/8/etc) & Thomas Warburton. Witnesses are often rellies, but Sam & Sue made marks, and Thos is also a witness on the other marr on that page, so I thought I'ld check if Thos was a "professional" witness (usually a mate of the parish clerk). I checked the names on the GRO pages preceeding and following Sam & Sue's page. Since there's a local index for this church, I could find an entry for the next quarter, and so compile a list of adjacent entries. Maybe the UK version of FMP just lets me click to the next image, but I've not got that. Anyways, I've prefixed a W on those marrs where Thos Warburton is a witness:
1841q1 Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1841 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference - FRYER Samuel NICKSON Mary A Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/89 - BROWN Peter MANTON Sarah Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/90 - ASHLEY Ellen PICKERING John R Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/91 W GARNER Mary LITTLEMORE John Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/92 W DODD William H T SMITH Margaret Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/93 W ABRAHAMS Samuel DARLINGTON Martha Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/94 W*WORRALL Samuel WORRALL Susan Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/95 W CARRINGTON John LEECH Sarah Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/96 W JONES Charles SMITH Mary Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/97 ----q2 W DARWELL Thomas FENNEY Mary Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/98 W WOODS Samuel RAWLINSON Betsy Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/99 W ASTON Ann CLARK Joseph Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/100 - WATSON John HAMBLETON Mary Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/101 W WORRALL Anne CLARK Joseph Frodsham, St Lawrence Cheshire West 125/1/102
So fromour marr, the 6 preceeding marrs, and the 7 following marrs, Thos is a witness on 10 of the 14 - a professional witness, I would say.
General link for local indexes: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd in particular: http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
INB I've sent Peter a pm re-my sending images to him.
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mgnv
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28 Jan 2014 14:11 |
This is the complete h/h (plus next door) corresponding to Reggie's partial 1841 census:
1841 Englandd Census Transcription Birth County:CHESHIRE [for everyone] Street:OVERTON Parish:FRODSHAM City:- County:Cheshire Country:ENGLAND House Number:- House Name:- Registration District:RUNCORN Town:FRODSHAM Archive Reference:HO107 Piece Number:97 Book:8 Folio:20 Page:1
RICHARD WORRALL 1791 50 Ag Lab HANNAH WORRALL 1796 45 RICHARD WORRALL 1821 20 JOSEPH WORRALL 1832 9 ELIZABETH WORRALL 1833 8 ELIZA WORRALL 1835 6 ==Next house =================================== SAMUEL WORRALL 1816 25 Ag Lab SUSANAH WORRALL 1806 35 JOSEPH WORRALL 1841 0[6m] ELIZABETH WORRALL 1841 0[6m]
Note that Shirley's 1841 census has the ref: Archive Reference:HO107 Piece Number:97 Book:8 Folio:10 Page:3 and the addy is Hartley (which is abt 1km W of Netherton).
An aside: Go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html and input the coords 351000,377100 Then select the 1873 1:2500 map (the oldest available at a usable scale). The coords are for 100m E of Hartley, so as to get Netherton in frame too. End of aside.
If one is going to investigate relationships between the Worrall's, it would help to have an easy way of finding the 1841 Worrals at this end of Frodsham. On Ancestry, one can search just one census year (except 1901, which they recently broke) using just bits of the census ref, so select the 1841 census, enter Worrall, and the piece # =97 plus the book # =8, and you get 39 hits. If you have an Ancestry sub, then you can just click on the names to get details and images. If you don't then all you get to see are the names and ages, but if you've got a GR or FMP sub, you can look them up, in particular:
Piece Folio Page Full name Registration district HO107/97 8/14 10 WORRALL, Joseph Runcorn a=15 HO107/97 8/27 14 WORRALL, Thomas Runcorn a=50 HO107/97 8/29 18 WORRALL, Thomas Runcorn a=35 HO107/97 8/31 22 WORRALL, John Runcorn a=35 HO107/97 8/42 18 WORRALL, Samuel Runcorn a=35
gets images of the other 22 Worrall's.
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Peter
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28 Jan 2014 00:37 |
This also looks like Betsey's twin, Joseph:
Joseph Worrall
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900 birth: 1839 burial: 24 February 1853 Frodsham, Cheshire, England residence: 24 February 1853 , Frodsham, Cheshire, England Name Joseph Worrall Event Type Burial Event Date 24 Feb 1853 Event Place Frodsham, Cheshire, England Gender Male Age 14
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Peter
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28 Jan 2014 00:32 |
Thank you, although frustratingly there is more than one John and Elizabeth/Betty Worrall with children being baptised at that time?
Elizabeth Worrall
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000 christening: 1 January 1800 , Frodsham, Cheshire, England residence: 1 January 1800 , , England, Cheshire father: John Worrall mother: Betty Worrall Elizabeth Worrall
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000 christening: 27 April 1800 , Frodsham, Cheshire, England residence: 27 April 1800 , , England, Cheshire father: John Worrall mother: Elizabeth Worrall Susan Worrall
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000 christening: 14 July 1805 , Frodsham, Cheshire, England residence: 14 July 1805 , , England, Cheshire father: John Worrall mother: Elizabeth Mary Worrall
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000 christening: 8 March 1808 , Frodsham, Cheshire, England residence: 8 March 1808 , , England, Cheshire father: John Worrall mother: Betty
Short of a visit to Chester, is there an easier way to look at the records themselves?
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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27 Jan 2014 18:51 |
??
Parish Record Collection - Baptism Record
PrintClose Forenames: John Surname: Worrall Sex: Male Christening Year: 1777 Christening Date: 20 Jun 1777 Date of Birth: Place of Birth: Father's Forenames: Samuel Father's Surname: Worrall Mother's Forename: Rachel Mother's Surname: Record Group: Part 1 - 43 Record Number: 410 Parish: St. Mary City or Town: Birkenhead County: Cheshire Record source: Diocese of Chester parish registers of baptisms 1538-1910 Data provider: Cheshire Archives and Local Studies
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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27 Jan 2014 18:49 |
??? 41 England Census about John Worrall Name: John Worrall Age: 65 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1776 Gender: Male Where born: Cheshire, England Civil Parish: Frodsham Hundred: Eddisbury (Second Division) County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
View Image Registration District: Runcorn Sub-registration District: Frodsham Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 97 Book: 8 Page Number: 3 Household Members: Name Age John Worrall 65 Betty Worrall 60 Joseh Worrall 20 Joseph Worrall 5 Ellen Worrall 2
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 97; Book: 8; Civil Parish: Frodsham; County: Cheshire; Enumeration District: 6; Page: 3; Line: 10; GSU roll: 241237.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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27 Jan 2014 18:40 |
have you found John Worrall on any census to give an idea of his birth year?
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LondonBelle
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27 Jan 2014 18:40 |
Possible baptism?
Name: Susan Worrall Gender: Female Baptism Date: 14 Jul 1805 Baptism Place: Frodsham, Cheshire, England Father: John Worrall Mother: Elizabeth FHL Film Number: 1655670
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Peter
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27 Jan 2014 18:34 |
It seems as though Susan Worrall was baptised in 1805 to John Worrall and Elizabeth Cooper (married in Frodsham in 1799).
Could someone please look to see if they can find John's baptism. I have a possibility or two but would like a second opinion.
Thank you,
Peter
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LondonBelle
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27 Jan 2014 18:33 |
Possible burial for Susannah?
Name: Susan Worrall Gender: Female Death Age: 80 Burial Date: 22 Aug 1882 Burial Place: , Frodsham, Cheshire, England Burial Age: 80y FHL Film Number: 2104550
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Peter
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27 Jan 2014 18:27 |
Thank you for this - so it seems as though Betsey/Betty/Elizabeth was the illegitimate daughter of Susan Worrall, and along with a twin, Joseph, she was baptised in 1840.
Her parents, Susan Worrall and Samuel Worrall were married a few months later.
I wonder if Susan and Samuel were cousins? I'll have a look - and thank you for this.
PLEASE DON'T LOOK INTO Samuel's parents etc. They were Richard and Hannah Whalley Worrall ...I carried out a post into them recently. Betsy however, then married a distant uncle (Thomas Wakefield), from another line ... wow, complex!
Thank you,
Peter
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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27 Jan 2014 17:28 |
Name: Sarah Worrall Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1847 Registration District: Runcorn Inferred County: Cheshire Volume: 19 Page: 224
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ArgyllGran
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27 Jan 2014 17:25 |
1851 England Census about Elizabeth Worrall Name: Elizabeth Worrall Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Samuel Worrall Mother's Name: Susanah Worrall Gender: F (Female) Where born: Overton, Cheshire, England Civil Parish: Frodsham Lordship County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View Image Registration District: Runcorn Sub-registration District: Budworth ED, institution, or vessel: 2b Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 70 Piece: 2164 Folio: 719 Page Number: 19 Household Members: Name Age Samuel Worrall 34 Susanah Worrall 50 Joseph Worrall 10 Elizabeth Worrall 10 Sarah Worrall 4
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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27 Jan 2014 17:25 |
1851 census transcription details for: Top Lane, Frodsham Lordship
National Archive Reference: RG number: HO107 Piece: 2164 Folio: 719 Page: 18 Reg. District: Runcorn Sub District: Frodsham Parish: Frodsham Lordship Enum. District: 2B Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: Top Lane, Frodsham Lordship County: Cheshire Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born WORRALL, Samuel Head Married M 34 1817 Stone Quarry Labourer Overton, Cheshire WORRALL, Susanah Wife Married F 50 1801 Frodsham, Cheshire WORRALL, Joseph Son M 10 1841 Scholar Overton, Cheshire WORRALL, Elizabeth Daughter F 10 1841 Scholar Overton, Cheshire WORRALL, Sarah Daughter F 4 1847 Overton, Cheshire
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ArgyllGran
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27 Jan 2014 17:23 |
????
Births Dec 1840 (>99%) Worrall Betty Runcorn 19 192 Worrall Joseph Runcorn 19 192
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LondonBelle
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27 Jan 2014 17:23 |
1881 census ? Looks like Betsy could be Elizabeth?
Name: Betsy Worrall Age: 40 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 Relationship to Head: Daughter Mother: Susan Worrall Gender: Female Where born: Frodsham, Cheshire, England Civil Parish: Frodsham Lordship County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Street Address: Five Crosses Education:
Employment status: View Image Occupation: Charwoman Registration District: Runcorn Sub-registration District: Frodsham ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3518 Folio: 23 Page Number: 18 Household Members: Name Age Susan Worrall 70 Betsy Worrall 40 Sarah Worrall 15 William Worrall 3
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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27 Jan 2014 17:22 |
??
Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: WORRALL, Samuel Registration district: Runcorn County: Cheshire Year of registration: 1841 Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912 Volume no: 19 Page no: 164 MarriageFinder: Samuel Worrall married one of the following people:
DARLINGTON, Martha LEECH, Sarah SMITH, Margaret WORRALL, Susan ????????? ABRAHAM, Samuel CARRINGTON, John DODD, William
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ErikaH
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27 Jan 2014 17:18 |
Forenames:Elizabeth Surname:Worrall Sex:Female Christening Year:1840 Christening Date:27 Dec 1840 Date of Birth:Age: Location:Frodsham Father's Forenames:Father's Surname: Mother's Forename:Susan Mother's Surname:Worrall Parish:City or Town:FrodshamCounty:CheshireRecord source:Diocese of Chester Bishop's Transcripts of Baptisms Data provider:Cheshire Archives and Local Studies Transcriptions © Family Search
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safc
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27 Jan 2014 17:18 |
Samuel Worrall, "England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000" Name: Samuel Worrall Event Type: Marriage Event Date: 09 Mar 1841 Event Place: , Frodsham, Cheshire, England Gender: Male Age (Formatted): Birth Date: Marital Status: Father's Name: Richard Worrall Mother's Name: Spouse's Name: Susan Worrall Spouse's Marital Status: Spouse's Father's Name: John Worrall Spouse's Mother's Name: GS Film number: 2104549 Digital Folder Number: 004018977
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