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Looks good folks! At least Margaret now has a name for Thomas's father.

She also has a maiden surname for Frederick's mother.

Some of these helpers just never give up Margaret and in this case it has been worthwhile.

Margaret, what does Frederick give his father's occupation as on his marriage cert?

Throwing these in....
EDIT>>>Some info already posted while I slowly typed:-D

Baptism
Name: Frederick Vale Perkins
Birth Date: 3 Aug 1828
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1828
Baptism Place: Birmingham, St Philip, Warwickshire, England
Father: Thomas Perkins
Mother: Elizabeth Perkins
Reference Number: DRO 25
Archive Roll: M40

Residing: Parish of Handsworth
Father's Occupation: Builder

Marriage?
Name: Thomas Perkins
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 28 Jul 1826
Marriage Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Eliza Vale
Spouse Gender: Female
Reference Number: DRO 41
Archive Roll: M83
Spouse Gender: Female
Spouse Marriage Age: 22
Reference Number: DRO 41
Archive Roll: 664

After Banns
Both Signed
Witnesses: William Perkins. Ann? Perkins

Possible Baptism:
father: Richard Perkins
mother: Elizabeth
Name Thomas Perkins
Gender Male
Christening Date 30 Mar 1807
Christening Place SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
Birth Date 02 Jul 1806
Father's Name Richard Perkins
Mother's Name Elizabeth
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C04179-4
System Origin England-ODM
GS Film number 813713
Reference ID

2nd Marriage?
Name: Thomas Perkins
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 1 Jan 1840
Marriage Age: Full Age.....Widower..Gentleman
Marriage Place: Birmingham, St George, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Sarah Taylor....Widow
Spouse Gender: Female
Spouse Marriage Age: Full Age
Father: Richard Perkins.......Gentleman
Spouse's Father: Abraham Parker.....Gentleman
Reference Number: DRO 9
Archive Roll: M21

By Licence
All signed
This ties in with being 'Ind' in 1841

Marriage?
Name: Richard Perkins
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 3 Sep 1799
Marriage Place: Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Elizabeth Collon
Spouse Gender: Female
Reference Number: DRO 41
Archive Roll: M81

Both signed
After Banns
Both of the Parish.


Some or all of the above may be relevant

Chris

What about this marriage - Thomas described as "Gentleman"; widower. Sarah is a widow


Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937

Name:Thomas Perkins
Gender:Male
Marriage Date:1 Jan 1840
Marriage Age:Full Age
Marriage Place:Birmingham, St George, Warwickshire, England
Spouse:Sarah Taylor
Spouse Gender:Female ;
Spouse Marriage Age:Full Age
Father:Richard Perkins
Spouse's Father:Abraham Taylor - says Parker on image; Gentleman
Reference Number:DRO 9

Possible marriage for Thomas and Eliza(beth):


Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937

Name:Thomas Perkins
Gender:Male
Marriage Date:28 Jul 1826
Marriage Place:Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire, England
Spouse:Eliza Vale
Spouse Gender:Female
Reference Number:DRO 41
Archive Roll:M83

Is this actually YOUR family about which you are asking?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1334060

So, you think Elizabeth may have died in 1839, but aren't looking for info about a marriage to Sarah....................the cert for which would name the man's FATHER

I can't see the 1861 to which you refer....... please can you post it for info?

No I am not bothering to pursue the Sarah link as I am satisfied that Frederick's mother was Elizabeth. As for being certain of the marriage in 1865 to Mary Ann Fearon, this couple went on to have a daughter who in turn had a son and included 'Fearon' amongst his three christian names. Hence the link. ~Thanks for your help.

Have you looked for a marriage for Thomas to Sarah?

How certain are you that the child found in 1841 is the man who married in Cumberland in 1865?

Do you have the marriage cert? (For father's occupation)

Rootgatherer - I have just found a death for an Elizabeth Perkins in 1839 - two years before the 1841 census where Frederick is shown age 12 with a Thomas and Sarah. However, I am satisfied that Frederick's mother was Elizabeth and father Thomas and will leave it at that. Thank you so much for trying to help.

Margaret, I am not too sure that we can be sure that is the same Thomas and Sarah in 1841 and 1851 (I am not saying that they aren't though). It is just the different occupation for Thomas that is casting a little doubt for me.

As you say though sometimes we just need to accept that we can only go so far back with some branches of the tree with any certainty.

Yes Reggie I am aware that Elizabeth is shown as Frederick Vale Perkins mother and am quite happy about that. However Sarah is shown as 'wife' on 1851 census which was rather confusing - perhaps she was a second wife after the demise of Elizabeth. This is no longer of too much importance as the sole object was to try and discover the parentage of Thomas which looks hopeless now. However, I am accepting of that and will draw a line under this section of the tree. Thank you for your input.

Margaret, did Frederick give an occupation for his father when he married in 1865 please? Did he say if his father was deceased?

On the 1841 census Thomas doesn't give an occupation. It states he is Ind (indepenant?)

Also worth noting that the 1841 cesus doesn't give marital status. As Reggie says Sarah, while living in the same household as Thomas, isn't necessarily married to him. She may have been an unmarried sister living with a widowed brother..

..................and 1841 does not indicate that Sarah was married to Thomas......merely that she was living in the same household

See my remarks above about 1841

The baptism info - posted above - shows the mother's name to have been ELIZABETH

Didn't you see it? It's there twice....................

Yes that is the 1851 census I was looking at. The 1841 also lists Thomas with wife Sarah. This is looking bleak. I think I will have to accept that I am not going to discover Thomas' father and/or mother in order to get further back. Thanks to everyone for trying to help.

Is this the 1851 census you are referring to...

??


..1851 England Census
about Thomas Perkins Name: Thomas Perkins
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Perkins
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Berming, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Cofton Hackett
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration District: Bromsgrove
Sub-registration District: Bromsgrove
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 14
Piece: 2047
Folio: 880
Page Number: 3
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Perkins 45 (Farmer of 40 Acres employing one man)
Sarah Perkins 44 (Newcastle)
Mary Blunn 28 (General Servant)

On the 1841 census posted.........Sarah was not born in County.

Reggie - I do not have exact location only Warwickshire which included both Birmingham and Leamington. What makes me puzzled about this is Frederick appearing - up to now - as an only child. My only thought is that he is possibly the youngest and that the 'marriage' to Elizabeth took place years before and she had died and Thomas re-married. Unfortunately I have not been able to prove this theory as yet.

London Family History Centre > Film Catalogue > England ...
www.londonfhc.org/...p=England,England,Warwick,Birmingham... Cached
Bishop's transcripts for St. Philip's Cathedral, Birmingham, 1715-1832: Authors ... Warwick, England - Church records: Title: Parish registers for St. Chrysostom's ...


Birmingham, Warwick, England - Church records
Title: Bishop's transcripts for St. Philip's Cathedral, Birmingham, 1715-1832
Authors: Church of England. St. Philip's Cathedral (Birmingham)
Film Items: Microfilm 0428974 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1715-1775
Microfilm 0428975 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1768-1797
Microfilm 0428977 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1810-1812
Microfilm 0502182 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1813-1814
Microfilm 0502183 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1814-1817, 1819
Microfilm 0502184 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1819-1821
Microfilm 0502185 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1821-1824
Microfilm 0502186 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1824-1827
Microfilm 0502187 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1827-1829
Microfilm 0502189 Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1832
Films not held on site which can be ordered for £7.50