Find Ancestors

The 1851 Census shows coal miner John Mayers living in Little Lane Trevethin with his wife Mary (nee' Bowen) and their two sons John Bowen Mayers born 19 Apr 1846 in Trevethin and younger brother William. I have no record of the death of Mary but John died of Pthisis in 1863. So there maybe a reason why the 1861 Census shows William Mayers then 10 living with his grandmother Elizabeth Bowen a bit further west in Buthchers Row Cadoxton Juxta Neath with two of Elizabeth's children - son Ebenezer Bowen a 22 yr old butcher and a John Bowen a 19 yr old collier. A marriage cert for 4 July 1871 shows William Mayers of Trevethin,son of John Mayers Collier (no mention of deceased) marrying Mary Price, both aged 21 in the Parish Church at Trevethin; no Mayers acted as witness. By 1871 William's older brother John Bowen Mayers was living in KIdderminster Rd Stourport with his wife Eliza and ten years later JBM and Eliza were still in the West Midlands at Comberton Rd. In 1886 John Bowen Mayers obtained probate on his 23 years deceased father's estate swearing as the "only child and only next of kin". But surely brother William was alive and well?
In 1891 there is a 38 yr old coal miner William Mayers living in King Str Llanover Blaenavon with his wife Mary a year older, and 5 children. By 1901 they seem to have moved to High Street Blaenavon AND to have added the name WEBB, so that it is now William Webb Mayers. in 1911 they were at 79 High Street.

Was that 1891 William Mayers living in Llanover, with his family, the brother of the John Bowen Mayers who married Eliza Poole?
Has anyone a clue as to why William would have added the name Webb before his surname Mayers?
I would also be grateful for any signs of the date/cause of Mary Bowen's death.

Guy

do you have this?


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name:
William Mayers

Probate Date:
15 May 1923

Death Date:
21 Jan 1923

Death Place:
Monmouthshire, Wales

Registry:
Llandaff

of 79 High Street, Blaenavon
Probate to Isaac William Jordan Colliery overman

Effects - £525 13s 7d

You say you haven't found a death for their mother so could it be that she remarried to someone called Webb?

Just for ref, for Mary's date and place of birth:-

1851 Wales Census about Mary Magers
Name: Mary Magers
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Magers
Gender: Female
Where born: Trevethin, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Trevethin
Ecclesiastical parish: Trevethin
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration District: Pontypool
Sub-registration District: Pontypool
ED, institution, or vessel: 2g
Piece: 2449
Folio: 171
Page Number: 9
Household Schedule Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
John Magers 79 - (looks like this should be 29)
Mary Magers 26
John Magers 5
William Magers 11 Mo

Name: John Mayers
Probate Date: 21 Jan 1885
Death Date: 17 Jan 1863
Death Place: Monmouthshire, Wales
Registry: Llandaff


On the actual image it seems to indicate that John was a widower when he died. So had his wife died before 1863 please?

For. ref.

Name: Wm Mayers
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Pontypool, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Cadoxton Juxta Neath
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration District: Neath
Sub-registration District: Ystradvelltey
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Household Schedule Number: 59
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4088
Folio: 41
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Bowen 61
Ebenezer Bowen 22
John Bowen 19
Wm Mayers 10
John Williams 23


I could be wrong but I think that this is the man who later appears as William Webb Mayers

1871

Name: William Mayers
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Mayers
Mother's Name: Lucy Mayers
Gender: Male
Where born: Blarnnon
Civil Parish: Llanover
Ecclesiastical parish: Blaenavon
Town: Blaenavon
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration District: Abergavenny
Sub-registration District: Blaenavon
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household Schedule Number: 69
Piece: 5313
Folio: 38
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
John Mayers 45
Lucy Mayers 41
William Mayers 18
John Mayers 16
Joshua Mayers 8
Alice Mayers 6
Tom Mayers 4
Eleazar Mayers 1


Births Jun 1852 Mayers William Abergavenny 11a 63

There is this death?

Deaths Mar 1861 (>99%)
MAYER Mary Hereford 6a 352

..........which is a possible reason for William being with his grandmother.

Where was his brother and father in 1861?

I'm absolutely certain that "my" John Mayers married a Mary Bowen 22 Oct 1842. This John Mayers was a collier who died in 1863. So it seems unlikely that the 1871 census 18 yr old William Mayers son of John and LUCY is the right one, he could indeed be the one whose birth was in Apr-Jun 1852 in Abergavenny Vol 11a Page 63.
Who this 1871 John Mayers who married a Lucy is a mystery at the moment.

Guy, I think rootgatherer is saying (if I understand it correctly) that William Webb Mayers is probably not yours - that he is the son of another John Mayers entirely (this would fit as John Webb Mayers married to Mary was born in Blaenavon):

1901 Wales Census
Name: William Webb Mayon
[William Webb Mayers]
Age in 1901: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Webb Mayon
Gender: Male
Where born: Blaenavon, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Blaenavon
Ecclesiastical parish: Blaenavon
Town: Blaenavon
County/Island: Monmouthshire

Registration District: Abergavenny
Sub-registration District: Blaenavon

William Webb Mayon 48
Mary Webb Mayon 49
Emily Webb Mayon 18
Arthur Webb Mayon 15

As William was in Neath 1861, have you considered this death?

Deaths Sep 1865 (>99%)
Mayers William Neath 11a 263

Jan

I feel pretty certain that "my" Wm Mayers aged 10 was with his grandmother in 1861 in Cadoxton juxta Neath.
I will indeed get the death of Sept 1865.
That then gets us to the marriage cert of 1871 of two 21 yr olds - Wm Mayers and Mary Price, William being the son of John Mayers a collier of Trevethin. Was that really the marriage of an 18yr old William Mayers found by Rootgatherer in the 1871 census the son of a John and Lucy? The suggestion is that that John married a Lucy around 1851, the only one I can find is a marriage in Jan-Mar 1850 in Abergavenny V 26 p 21 apparently not to a Lucy anybody but I will check it out.
It's not that Mayers is that common a name to have two Williams son of John in the 1850's in Monmouthshire has me confused.

Guy

Right.

William Webb Mayers was born 1853 in Blaenavon. He has father John Mayers, collier.
This is almost certainly the William found by rootgatherer - his father John is also a collier.
In addition, your William was born in Pontypool

I do think they are a different family. Interestingly, I am pretty confident this is them 1861. So NOT your William.

1861 Wales Census
Name: William Webb
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Webb
Mother's Name: Lucy Webb
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Blaenavon
Ecclesiastical parish: Blaenavon
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Registration District: Abergavenny
Sub-registration District: Blaenavon

John Webb 35
Lucy Webb 35
William Webb 8
Clara Jane Webb 4
Eleazar Webb 1
Jane K Watkins 32
Elizabeth J Watkins 4

I would be inclined to get that death cert and see if it confirms him to be yours.

Jan

Very helpful. Well it looks as though I've now a bit more work to do to find out if "my" John Mayers born circa 1817 who married Mary Bowen in Trevethin in 1842 has any connection with the John Mayers identified bt Treegatherer in the 1871 census who must have been born around 1826 and may have married a Lucy somebody around 1850.

Wm Mayers death cert was ordered last night, we shall see...!

Guy

The name change is a bit strange isn't it. Not unknown for families to do this of course, but Mayers isn't the most obvious name to change to! And they did keep the Webb name as a middle name. Very interesting.
A few people on Ancestry have this family in their trees, though they haven't made the Webb link as far as I can see.
Please let us know what the death cert reveals, would be very interested to know!
Jan

Burial (Find My Past)
Last name:Mayers
First Name:John Webb
County:Monmouthshire
Place / Parish:Blaenavon
Age:56
Burial Year:1913
Burial Month:Oct
Burial Day:29
Died Year:
Died Month:
Died Day:
Fathers Forenames:
Mothers Forenames:
Husbands Forenames:
Page:146
Record source:Monmouthshire Burials - Transcripts
Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

(saw above if fitting anywhere)

Chris :)

(other Burials for Blaenavon)

MAYERS Evelyn Maud 1912 1905 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Herbert 1893 1893 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS John 1899 1832 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS John Webb 1913 1857 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Mary 1916 1851 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Mary Louisa 1892 1872 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Thomas 1928 1869 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS William 1923 1853 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW

(Marriages, Blaenavon)

MAYERS Ethel 1914 1892 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Gwladys 1916 1896 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Thomas 1913 1891 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYER Thomas 1906 1879 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW

(Baptisms, Blaenavon)

MAYERS Herbert 1892 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Matthew Francis 1911 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MEARS John 1825 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MEARS William 1829 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW

(Burials, Trevithin)

MAYERS Florence 1898 1897 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS George 1932 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS George 1932 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Ivor Devis 1928 1928 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS John 1863 1822 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Joseph 1835 1831 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Joseph 1841 1840 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Laura 1889 1887 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Mervyn 1925 1911 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Thomas 1860 1797 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Thomas 1860 1860 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Thorold 1908 1887 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MEARS George 1923 1873 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MEYERS Sarah 1881 1799 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW

(Marriages, Trevithin)

MAYERS Alice 1898 1880 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Alice 1898 1880 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Arthur 1904 1878 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Arthur 1904 1878 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS George 1918 1897 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Horace 1920 1897 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS John 1842 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Martha 1915 1896 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Thomas Ivor 1920 1893 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS William 1871 1850 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYER Sarah 1850 1828 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW

(Baptisms, Trevithin)

MAYERS Albert Augustus 1910 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Alice 1901 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Annie 1901 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Annie Elizabeth 1903 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS George 1897 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS Joseph 1905 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS William 1865 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MAYERS William Henry 1906 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MEARS Daniel Maslen 1858 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
MEYERS John Morris 1900 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW

Thought I would look at the John and Lucy family again.

A different spelling for the surname?

Name: John Maiers
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1854
Registration District: Abergavenny
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 57

Name: Clara Jane Maiers
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1857
Registration District: Abergavenny
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 57

Name: Eliezer Maiers
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1859
Registration District: Abergavenny
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 56


Name: William Mayers
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1852
Registration District: Abergavenny
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 63

Name: William Mayers
Birth Date: abt 1853
Date of Registration: Mar 1923
Age at Death: 70
Registration District: Abergavenny
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 69

Name: William Mayers
Probate Date: 15 May 1923
Death Date: 21 Jan 1923
Death Place: Monmouthshire, Wales
Registry: Llandaff

William Mayers of 79 High Street, Blaenavon. Probate to Isaac William Jordan Colliery overman. Effects £525. 13s. 7d.


I wonder is Lucy is a shortened form of Louisa?

???

Marriages Mar 1850
Davies Elizabeth Abergavenny 26 21
Mayers John Abergavenny 26 21 ?????????????????
Powell Louisa Abergavenny 26 21 ?????????????????
Price Mary Abergavenny 26 21
Thomas David Abergavenny 26 21
Tippins Thomas Abergavenny 26 21
Went John Abergavenny 26 21
Williams Mary Abergavenny 26 21



From the 1851 census John Went married one of the Marys, Thomas Tippins also married a Mary. David Thomas married Elizabeth Davies. So it looks like John Mayers married Louisa Powell.

Blast - maybe not as they are Web in 1851

Name: John Web
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lucy Web
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llanwenarth Ultra
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration District: Abergavenny
Sub-registration District: Blaenavon
ED, institution, or vessel: 2c
Piece: 2447
Folio: 80
Page Number: 11
Household Schedule Number: 43
Household Members:
Name Age
John Web 25
Lucy Web 22
Thomas Williams 24 Visitor

(the 1850 Marriage below)

Marriage (Find My Past)
Grooms Last Name:Meyers
Grooms First Name:John (Collier)
Grooms Fathers First Name:William
Grooms Fathers Last Name:Mayers
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age:Full
Brides Last Name:Powell
Brides First Name:Louisa
Brides Fathers First Name:Richard
Brides Fathers Last Name:Powell
Brides Parish:
Brides Age:Minor
County:Monmouthshire
Place / Parish:Llanwenarth Citra
Marriage Year:1850
Marriage Month:Feb
Marriage Day:25
Page:98
Record source:Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Chris :)

I'm getting slightly confused!
IF "my" William Mayers brother of John Bowen Mayers died aged 15 in Neath - death cert awaited - then which William aged 21 married Mary Price in 1871 and was that the same William as shows in 1891 census living in King Str, Llanover with wife Mary plus 5 children?

Thanks to Rootgatherer and Chris Ho we seem to have quite a lot on the 1871 Census John & Lucy Mayers then of 68 High Str Llanover, Blaenavon - births of William Apr-Jun 1852; John Jul-Sep1854; a Clara-Jane in 1857 (since she doesn't appear in the 1871 census maybe she died) plus an Eliazer born jul-Sep1859 but she must also have died since in 1871 there's a 1 yr old of the same name.

Would that 1871 John Mayers be the same as the 15 yr old Collier born 1826 living at Long Row, Pwlldee in Parish of Llanwenarth Ultra in 1841 under the name Maier? together with William a collier aged 40 plus wife Jane aged 30 and a younger brother William born 1829 and a sister Elizabeth born 1831. But I am unable to find any subsequent references for them under surname variants.

If that 1841 family are connected then where did William Maier come from - born around 1801?

Guy

Clara Jane is working as a servant in 1871

Name: Clara Jane Webb
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanover U, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llanover Upper
Ecclesiastical parish: Blaenavon
Town: Blaenavon
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration District: Abergavenny
Sub-registration District: Blaenavon
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household Schedule Number: 50
Piece: 5313
Folio: 8
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
John Jordan 32
Ann Jane Jordan 25
John Wm Jordan 4
Clara Jane Webb 16