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zoe
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4 Aug 2013 10:31 |
Hi,
I'm trying to trace my dads family and have become very stuck!
I have managed to get back to my Gt Gt Grand Father George Alfred Arrowsmith.
He was born in1869 in Birmingham and Died in 1904 when his body was found in the Great Barr Canal.
On his marriage certificate it states his fathers name is John Arrowsmith (dec) and he was a Boatman. George was also a boatman.
Any ideas as to how I can find out more information as I can't seem to find them on the Census's.
Also my Granny Ethel Arrowsmith had both her children in Aston Workhouse and both were illegitimate, is there any way I can find out more information about this. She managed to keep both children and raise them herself.
Thank you in advance!! :-)
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patchem
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4 Aug 2013 10:33 |
Welcome to the boards, Zoe.
How do you know he was born in 1869, Birmingham - have you got his birth certificate?
Thank-you
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patchem
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4 Aug 2013 10:35 |
Is this the family?
1901 England Census George Alfred Arrowsmith Age: 32 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Annmaria Arrowsmith Gender: Male Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Civil Parish: Aston Ecclesiastical parish: Saltley St Saviour County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Registration District: Aston Sub-registration District: Erdington ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Household Schedule Number: 97 Piece: 2878 Folio: 154 Page Number: 15 George Alfred Arrowsmith 32 Annmaria Arrowsmith 29 Walsall, Staffordshire, George Alfred Arrowsmith 7 Ethel Maria Arrowsmith 5 John Henry Arrowsmith 3 Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2878; Folio: 154; Page: 15.
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Maddie
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4 Aug 2013 10:42 |
in 1881 there is this George with father John, a labourer unemployed
may or may not be yours
SYMONDS, Henry Head Married M 37 1844 Carpenter Hereford, Herefordshire VIEW SYMONDS, Esther Wife Married F 32 1849 B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW SYMONDS, Leah E Daughter Single F 10 1871 Scholar B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW SYMONDS, Annie Daughter Single F 6 1875 Scholar B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW BRITAIN, Ann Grand Mother Widow F 84 1797 B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, John Visitor Married M 36 1845 Labourer (Unemployed) Studley, Worcestershire VIEW ARROWSMITH, Mary A Visitor Married F 34 1847 B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, Thomas Visitor Single M 12 1869 B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, George Visitor Single M 10 1871 B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, Rose Visitor Single F 5 1876 B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, Arthur Visitor Single M 3 1878 B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, Esther Visitor Single F 1 1880 B Ham, Warwickshire VIEW
Piece: 3041
Folio: 77
Page: 23
Registration District: Aston
Civil Parish: Aston
Municipal Borough:
Address: 23, Talford St, Aston
County: Warwickshire
1901 ARROWSMITH, George Alfred Head Married M 32 1869 Boatman Birmingham, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, Ann Maria Wife Married F 29 1872 Walsall, Staffordshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, George Alfred Son M 7 1894 Saltley, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, Ethel Maria Daughter F 5 1896 Saltley, Warwickshire VIEW ARROWSMITH, John Henry Son M 3 1898 Saltley, Warwickshire VIEW
Piece: 2878
Folio: 154
Page: 15
Registration District: Aston
Civil Parish: Aston
Municipal Borough:
Address: 6, High Street Coleshill Terrace, Aston
County: Warwickshire refine search back to 1901 census search results
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patchem
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4 Aug 2013 10:42 |
Does he state an age on the marriage certificate? Marriages Sep 1893 Arrowsmith George Alfred Aston 6d 511 Griffin Ann Maria Aston 6d 511
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Maddie
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4 Aug 2013 10:49 |
1911 ? ARROWSMITH, Ann Head Widow F 41 1870 Charwoman Staffordshire Brierley Hill VIEW ARROWSMITH, George Son Single M 17 1894 Horse Driver Birmingham VIEW ARROWSMITH, John Son M 13 1898 Birmingham VIEW ARROWSMITH, Albert Son M 9 1902 Birmingham VIEW ARROWSMITH, Ethel Daughter Single F 15 1896 Cleaning Birmingham VIEW ARROWSMITH, Harry Son M 7 1904 Birmingham VIEW GRIFFIN, A Brother Single M 24 1887 Painter House Birmingham VIEW
RG number: RG14
Piece: 18343
Reference: RG14PN18343 RG78PN1103 RD385 SD5 ED24 SN276
Registration District: Aston
Sub District: Erdinton
Enumeration District: 24
Parish: Aston
Address: 11 Drayton Terrace Clayton Road
County: Warwickshire
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Flip
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4 Aug 2013 11:00 |
1911 would confirm that marriage Pat - A Griffin is recorded as her brother:
George Arrowsmith Age in 1911: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894 Relation to Head: Son Gender: Male Birth Place: Birmingham Civil Parish: Erdington County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street Address: 11 Draton Terrace Gate St Saltley Birmingham Marital Status: Single Occupation: Horse Driver Registration District: Aston Registration District Number: 385 Sub-registration District: Erdinton ED, institution, or vessel: 20 Piece: 18339 Household Members: Name Age Ann Arrowsmith 41 (born Brierley Hill) George Arrowsmith 17 John Arrowsmith 13 Albert Arrowsmith 9 Ethel Arrowsmith 15 Harry Arrowsmith 7 A Griffin 24 (born Birmingham)
Strange though, although it's crossed out I'm sure it says she was married 10 and half years - wonder if she meant that was how long she was married before being widowed.
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zoe
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4 Aug 2013 11:00 |
Hi ya,
Thank for helping
I don't have his birth certificate, I tracked him via my Grannys info.
On the marriage certificate he was 23 and a labourer and his father John was a boatman. They wed on the 21st August 1893 at St Saviours in Salty.
On Georges death certificate it states that he was a boatman then.
I need to find John Arrowsmith now or get Georges birth certificate somehow. :-) :-)
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zoe
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4 Aug 2013 11:05 |
Strange though, although it's crossed out I'm sure it says she was married 10 and half years - wonder if she meant that was how long she was married before being widowed.
I think it does as they married in August 1893 and he died in Jan 1904.
So if things are crossed out on a census what does that mean? Its just that George's occupation was down as a boatman, which was crossed through and barge put next to it?
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Potty
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4 Aug 2013 11:05 |
Can't find a birth reg for either George or Ethel.
Edit: this is the only birth coming up for the right time but in the wrong place:
Births Mar 1869 (>99%) ARROWSMITH George Alfred Hackney 1b 427
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patchem
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4 Aug 2013 11:06 |
At the moment the only information as to birthplace is that 1901 census?
The ages do appear to agree on marriage, census, and death.
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patchem
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4 Aug 2013 11:08 |
Barge families a bit negligent as regards registration?
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Maddie
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4 Aug 2013 11:10 |
probably not him, just wondering if 23 when married may be born 1870 names reversed ?????????
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Alfred George Arrowsmith Name: Alfred George Arrowsmith Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1870 Registration District: Birmingham Inferred County: Warwickshire Volume: 6d Page: 124
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zoe
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4 Aug 2013 11:15 |
I do only have the birthplace from the census although my Dad said we were all from Birmingham!
I never thought that they could have reversed their names, which is daft of me as my grand dad went by his second name.
I couldn't find birth info for either of them. I will ask my dad if he has any birth certificates for his gran.
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patchem
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4 Aug 2013 11:15 |
If his father actually existed and was called John and they were from Birmingham, this is a possible death Deaths Mar 1882 ARROWSMITH John 36 Birmingham 6d 92
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Potty
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4 Aug 2013 11:21 |
Possible for 1871 for the Alfred b 1870:
Name:Alfred Smith [Alfred Arrowsmith] Age:8 Months Estimated Birth Year:abt 1870 Relation:Son Father's Name:John Arron Smith - Waggoner Mother's Name:Mary Smith Gender:Male Where born:Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Civil Parish:Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish:Christchurch Town:Birmingham John Arron Smith 35 Mary Smith 23 Thomas Smith 2 Alfred Smith 8 Months
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Potty
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4 Aug 2013 11:22 |
Is there an address for George on the marriage cert?
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Maddie
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4 Aug 2013 11:26 |
?????????????? Civil registration event: Marriage View the original image
Name: ARROWSMITH, John
Registration district: [?] Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Year of registration: 1868
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name Not available before 1912
Volume no: [?] 6D
Page no: [?] 181 MarriageFinderâ„¢: [?] John Arrowsmith married one of the following people Transcript JACKSON, Matilda VIEW KEMP, Mary Ann
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patchem
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4 Aug 2013 11:27 |
John is a wagoner, but his next door neighbour is a boatman
1871 England Census John Arron Smith [John Arrowsmith] Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Smith Gender: Male Where born: Studley, Warwickshire, England Civil Parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch Town: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Registration District: Birmingham Sub-registration District: St Paul ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Household Schedule Number: 7 Piece: 3113 Folio: 33 Page Number: 2 Possibly living at the back of Summer Row John Arron Smith 35 could be 25 Mary Smith 23 Thomas Smith 2 Alfred Smith 8 Months Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3113; Folio: 33; Page: 2; GSU roll: 839577.
Maddie's family in 1881
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Potty
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4 Aug 2013 11:28 |
Above family in 1881, with Alfred now George?
Name:Mary A. Arrowsmith Age:34 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1847 Relationship to Head:Visitor Gender:Female Where born:B ham, Warwickshire, England Street Address:23 Talford St
Henry Symonds 37 Esther Symonds 32 Leah E. Symonds 10 Annie Symonds 6 Ann Britain 84 John Arrowsmith 36 - labourer Mary A. Arrowsmith 34 Thomas Arrowsmith 12 George Arrowsmith 10 Rose Arrowsmith 5 Arthur Arrowsmith 3 Esther Arrowsmith 1 Edit: see Maddie has already posted this above.
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