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joysie4
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29 Jun 2013 08:15 |
I am trying to find william mannell birth date he died age 97 greenwich I have googled william mannell as he served on hms victory also had a trawler named after him any advice welcomed
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MarieCeleste
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29 Jun 2013 08:21 |
Hello Joyce, in what year was he 97 when he died?
EDIT: Found a 94 year old - is this him?
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 Name: William Mannell Estimated Birth Year: abt 1777 Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1871 Age at Death: 94 Registration District: Greenwich Inferred County: London Volume: 1d Page: 559
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Chris Ho :)
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29 Jun 2013 08:22 |
Death Name: MANNELL, William Registration district: [?] Greenwich County: London Year of registration: 1871 Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Age at death:94 Volume no: 1D Page no: 559
(would that be above?)
Chris :)
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MarieCeleste
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29 Jun 2013 08:25 |
Joyce - what else do you know about him, like who he married (if he did)?
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Chris Ho :)
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29 Jun 2013 08:39 |
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28415407
(above from google)
Chris :)
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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29 Jun 2013 08:55 |
A Trafalgar Veteran. On the 9th inst., William Mannell, aged 97, died at Greenwich. He was rated A.B. No. on inst., William Mannell, aged 97, died at Greenwich. He was rated A.B. No. on board Her Majesty's ship Victory at Trafalgar, and acted as quartermaster iii that memorable engagement. The Suez Canal. Although it has been denied that the Suez Canal is likely Westmorland Gazette North West, England 18/03/1871 Article
VIEW
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Chris Ho :)
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29 Jun 2013 09:02 |
The Hampshire Advertiser (Southampton, England), Wednesday, March 15, 1871
(snippet says 9th, at the Residence of Widow French, 7, Garden Stairs, Greenwich)
Chris :)
1871 (not sure if Martha on image?) FRENCH, Martha Lodger F 81 1790 Cornwall (Dressmaker) Piece: 752 Folio: 4 Page: 2 Registration District: Greenwich Civil Parish: Greenwich Municipal Borough: Address: Garden Stairs, Greenwich County: London, Kent
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MarieCeleste
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29 Jun 2013 09:08 |
Looks like he was born Suffolk:
1861 England Census
Name: Wm Mannell Age: 81 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1780 Relation: In Pensioner (Boarder) Gender: Male Where born: Olborough, Suffolk, England Civil Parish: Greenwich Ecclesiastical parish: London County/Island: Kent Country: England
Registration District: Greenwich Sub-registration District: Greenwich East ED, institution, or vessel: Royal Hospital Greenwich
Household Schedule Number: 1 Piece: 403 Folio: 126 Page Number: 10
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MarieCeleste
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29 Jun 2013 09:14 |
1851 has him as a widower:
VINCE, George Head Married M 28 1823 Inn Keeper Hamersfield, Suffolk VINCE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 34 1817 Worlingworth, Suffolk VINCE, Elizabeth Daughter F 7 1844 Scholar Ufford, Suffolk VINCE, Henry Visitor M 10 1841 Scholar London MANNELL, William Lodger Widower M 70 1781 Mariner Aldborugh, Suffolk GROOM, Lionel Lodger Widower M 48 1803 Cordwainer Melton, Suffolk
Piece: 1801 Folio: 524 Page: 19 Registration District: Woodbridge Civil Parish: Hollesley
Address: Fox Inn, Hollesley County: Suffolk
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Chris Ho :)
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29 Jun 2013 09:25 |
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.boon/Shingle%20Street/Shinglestreethome.htm
1841 MANNEL, William M 55 1786 Suffolk (Pilot) MANNEL, Rachel F 35 1806 Suffolk HOWES, Elizabeth F 70 1771 Suffolk Piece: 1041 Book/Folio: 3 Page: 1 Registration District: Woodbridge Civil Parish: Bawdsey Municipal Borough: Address: Shingle St, Bawdsey County: Suffolk
Chris :)
edits (no, age wrong!)
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joysie4
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29 Jun 2013 09:36 |
Chris & Marie
Thank you both for the information I found this info about his age in the newspaper I never knew he was married this info is for a relation who thought he may be related I was only told he was serving on the victory
Thank you
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MarieCeleste
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29 Jun 2013 09:48 |
Chris, that 1841 could be right as ages were rounded down so he could have been between 55-59. If he was 59 then that would just about tie in with the age on other census.
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MarieCeleste
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29 Jun 2013 09:54 |
We posted above the death for the 94 year old in Greenwich, but also came across this:
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: William Mannell Estimated Birth Year: abt 1780 Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1871 Age at Death: 91 Registration District: Greenwich Inferred County: London Volume: 1d Page: 559
This age is more consistent with the census records posted.
So, was there more than one William Mannell who was a mariner?
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Chris Ho :)
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29 Jun 2013 10:06 |
That looks to be same reference numbers MC, bit odd!.
Would think National Archives would have something relating, Navy/Trafalgar wise.
Chris :)
Deaths Mar 1871 (>99%) ------------------------------------------------------- Mannell William 91 Greenwich 1d 559 Mannell William 94 Greenwich 1d 559
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joysie4
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29 Jun 2013 10:12 |
Marie The 97 year old one from greenwich served on the victory which I assume is the correct william mannell which I read on a google site
I found our mannell family came from Dorset
Thanks for the interest
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Potty
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29 Jun 2013 12:36 |
There is only one William Mannell on the image - the age is not very clear but more likely to be 94.
The entry has been transcribed by two different people who have disagreed over what they see in the entry. If you see an entry on freebmd in bold, this means that it has been transcribed by two different people and they have both transcribed it the same. Freebmd intend that eventually every entry will be double transcribed.
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George_of_Westbury
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29 Jun 2013 13:00 |
From the Nat Archives
Don't know if it helps or not.Im having difficulty understanding the notes.LOL
William Mannell aged 33 born in Aldborough, Suffolk, England. Ship: HMS Victory Rank/Rating: Quartermaster's Mate Personal details Notes Mannel alias Lambert William ADM 29/56 p535 As Mannel William Victory (SB 530) aged 31; 7 May 1803-12 Sept 1805 AB 13 Sept 1805-5 Jan 1806 Quartermaster HMS Ocean (SLVO 634) 6 Jan 1806-15 Jan 1806 Quartermasters Mate (SB 137) 16 Jan 1806-31 Dec 1808 Quatermasters Mate 1 Jan 1809-13 April 1809 Quartermaster 14 April 1809-16 July 1809 Masters Mate Milford (SB 331) 17 July 1809-22 July 1809 Mid 23 July 1809-6 Sept 1809 Masters Mate (run from leave-Plymouth) As Lambert William Pactolus (SB 317) 8 Aug 1816-25 May 1817 AB (smuggler) Wye (SB 180) 26 May 1817-31 Dec 1817 AB 1 Jan 1818-20 Oct 1818 Quartermaster Leander (SB 770) 21 Oct 1818-24 Oct 1818 AB 25 Oct 1818-11 June 1819 quartermaster Cyrene? (SB 85) 12 June 1819-27 Oct 1819 Gunners Crew 28 Oct 1819-27 Aug 1821 Master at Arms Queen Charlotte (SB 925) 25 Sept 1821-2 Oct 1821 Seaman, AB Time from 8 Aug 1816-27 Aug 1821 not allowed this man having been convicted for smuggling Manell William ADM 29/44 p387 Victory (SB 530?) aged 31?; 7 May 1803-12 April 1805 AB 13 Sept 1805-15 Jan 1806 Quartermasters mate Ocean 16 JAn 1806-31 Dec 1808 Quartermasters Mate 1 JAn 1809-13 April 1809 Quartermaster 14 April 1809-16 July 1809 masters Mate Milford 17 July 1809-22 July 1809 Mid 23 July 1809-6 Sept 1809 Masters Mate (run) A 23 March 1850 Service details Comments: From: Sheerness Tender HMS Victory Ship's pay book number: (SB 529) 11 May 1803 to 12 September 1805 Rank/rating: Able Seaman Comments: prest
13 September 1805 to 15 January 1806 (Was at Trafalgar) Rank/rating: Quartermaster's Mate Sources used Catalogue reference: ADM 36/15900 George
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George_of_Westbury
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29 Jun 2013 13:13 |
Just for further interest.
WILLIAM MANNELL, trawler/minesweeper. BUILT 1916, SUNK 1949
NAMED AFTER A QUARTERMASTER'S MATE who served aboard HMS Victory with Nelson at Trafalgar, the William Mannell was built for the Royal Navy at Middlesbrough as a Castle-class steel trawler in 1916, and launched as an escort trawler on 2 June, 1917, writes Kendall McDonald. She survived the war and was sold by auction in Milford Haven in 1920 to start her civilian life of fishing. Registered in London with the fishing number LO370, the 276-ton steam trawler was 125ft long, with a beam of 23ft and a draught of 12ft. She was powered by a 61hp three-cylinder engine, and had her 12-pounder gun removed. But she had not finished with war. On 10 June, 1940, the Admiralty requisitioned the William Mannell and converted her to a minesweeper, paying a monthly hire rate of £80 to her owners, the Boston Deep Sea Fishing & Ice Co of Fleetwood. After surviving her second war, the Mannell returned to civilian fishing in November, 1945. Three years later she was sold to J Marr & Son of Fleetwood for £12,500, and fished the West of Scotland grounds under her skipper, Reuben J Melhuish, and 13 crew. Out of Fleetwood with the trawler Gava in February, 1949, she was fishing the St Kilda grounds when gale warnings drove both trawlers to anchor in a small bay near Glengad Head, Donegal, on Ireland's north coast. While fishing, Captain Melhuish had found his steering gear jammed, but this had been easily freed by giving the wheel a small turn in the reverse direction. By 4am the next day, 22 February, the weather seemed to have improved enough to start fishing again, and Captain Melhuish ordered the anchor raised. He then increased his speed from "slow" to "half ahead", and put the wheel hard aport. However, his steering had jammed again, and he made only a slight turn to port. Before he could stop the engine, the vessel hit the rocks, and stayed there listing to port, despite the engine being run at full astern for several minutes. The crew abandoned ship into the boat, rowed to the Gava and got aboard. Two hours later, the captain and chief engineer went back to find the fish-hatch full of sea water, although the engine-room was dry. At 12.15pm the Mannell refloated, listing to port, on the rising tide. The trawler was taking in water and down by the head, but the Gava attempted to tow her to a nearby beach. At 3pm this bid ended when the waterlogged trawler listed violently to port and sank by the head in "14 fathoms of water". Captain Melhuish was heavily criticised by the Admiralty Court held in August 1949 for his "lack of seamanlike care", because he had made no attempt to maintain steam and operate the pumps after stranding. His certificate was suspended for six months.
George
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joysie4
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29 Jun 2013 17:25 |
George You have been busy I have already read all about the william mannell trawler and it was interesting reading the national archives I am sure william isnt related
Thanks for your help
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MarieCeleste
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29 Jun 2013 18:06 |
Joyce - if you look at the info George has posted from the National Archives it infers that the William Mannell who served on the Victory was born Aldborough, Suffolk.
Are you saying that it can't be your William because you think he was from Dorset?
ADDED: The battle of Trafalgar was 1805, the muster roll for the Victory at that time gives William Mannell's age as 23, which would be born closer to 1782 - again closer in age to the census records found. Link to the muster roll http://www.hms-victory.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79:trafalgar-roll-magee-rylett&catid=81:trafalgar-roll&Itemid=491 There is only one William Mannell on the Victory muster roll so that must be the one born in Suffolk.
Just because the newspapers of the time said he was 97 it doesn't mean he was, that might be what he told people - possibly believing himself that he was. Having lived that long and not having a birth certificate to refer to (that's if he was literate) then any confusion is understandable.
I've had another look at the index that the death transcription was taken from and I'd say it should read age 91.
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