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Once again I’m hoping someone out there can help solve a family mystery.

My wife’s maiden name was NALL, her grandfather was called NORMAN NALL born in Birkenhead in 1912.

In 1933 Norman Nall married a Florence May Moore or possibly Florence May Winifred Moore and this is where the mystery stems from. They went on to have 10 children between 1934 and 1952, including my late father in law John Henry Nall.

Try as I might I cannot trace Florence Moore? The only other family story is that Florence’s mother may have been named Lucy, although as I said this is just a story.

The mystery deepens by an old photograph we have that was taken in Landican Cemetery, Birkenhead in what looks like the early 1950’s. The photo shows my wife’s now deceased aunt Florence Marcella Nall (known as Cilla) sat on the grass leaning on a gravestone.

On the Gravestone are carved the words “In loving memory of Henry H. Crutchley of Presteigne, Radnorshire who died 27th January 1949 aged 72 years. Also his brother James who died 5th September 1951 aged 69 years”

I believe this to be grave of Henry Harding Crutchley, born 1876 and his brother James Hawkins Crutchley, born 1882. Their father was a Henry H. Crutchley and their mother Sarah (maiden name unknown). I also believe that these brothers had a brother named Frederick Allen Crutchley born 1878 and a sister Florence May Crutchley born 1833. Why and when the two Crutchley brothers moved from Radnorshire to Birkenhead, Cheshire I have no idea.

My wife has always believed this grave to belong to a Grandfather; whether that was Henry or James I don’t know.

Can anyone out there help me square the circle of just how Florence May Moore and these Crutchley brothers are related and explain the differing surnames?

Any info about the Crutchley family in Presteigne would also be interesting.

Thanks in advance

Steve

Have you got the marriage cert Steve? Hopefully it will have her age, father's name, and the witnesses might help too:

Marriages Sep 1933
Moore Florence M W [HN]all Birkenhead 8a 1398
Nall Norman Moore Birkenhead 8a 1398

Jan

Name: Florence May W Nall
Birth Date: 28 Feb 1913
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1972
Age at Death: 59
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 10a
Page: 219

Name: Florence M W Moore
Mother's Maiden Name: Burrows
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1913
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 848

is this her ???
Civil registration event: Birth
View the original image

Name: MOORE, Florence M W

Registration district: [?] Birkenhead

County: Cheshire

Year of registration: 1913

Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun

Mother's maiden name: Burrows

Volume no:[?]8A

Page no:[?]848

possible parents marraige ?????
Civil registration event: Marriage
View the original image

Name: MOORE, John Peter

Registration district: [?] Birkenhead

County: Cheshire

Year of registration: 1905

Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep

Spouse's last name Not available before 1912

Volume no: [?] 8A

Page no: [?] 962
MarriageFinder™: [?] John Peter Moore married one of the following people Transcript
BURROWS, Emily Lucy VIEW
LEE, Mary

Maybe a link?

Births Sep 1891 (>99%)
ASKEW William Birkenhead 8a 466
Burrows Florence Allrocher Birkenhead 8a 466
BURROWS Florence Allrother Birkenhead 8a 466
BYRNES James Christopher Birkenhead 8a 466
CRUTCHLEY Henry Harding Birkenhead 8a 466
Jones Louisa Gladys Birkenhead 8a 466
Jones Thomas Birkenhead 8a 466
Mylett James Birkenhead 8a 466
SYKES Alexander Richard Birkenhead 8a 466
WILKINS Ernest Birkenhead 8a 466

Marriages Mar 1876
Bruton Sarah Kington 6a 809
Crutchley Henry Harding Kington 6a 809

1911
MOORE, John Peter Head Married M 29 1882 Valet Ches Chester VIEW
MOORE, Lucy Emily Married Married6 years F 29 1882 London Cambden Town VIEW
MOORE, Emily Kathleen Daughter F 5 1906 Ches Birkenhead VIEW
MOORE, George Henry Son M 3 1908 Ches Birkenhead VIEW
MOORE, John Son M 0 (5 MONTHS) 1911 Ches Birkenhead VIEW

RG number: RG14

Piece: 21961

Reference: RG14PN21961 RG78PN1308 RD452 SD1 ED4 SN43

Registration District: Birkenhead

Sub District: Birkenhead

Enumeration District: 4

Parish: Birkenhead

Address: 72 Jackson St Birkenhead

County: Cheshire



: BURROWS, Emily Lucy

Registration district: [?] Chertsey

County: Surrey

Year of registration: 1881

Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar

Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3

Volume no:[?]2A

Page no:[?]37

henry remarried
Name: CRUTCHLEY, Henry Harding

Registration district: [?] Knighton

County: Radnorshire

Year of registration: 1906

Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec

Spouse's last name Not available before 1912

Volume no: [?] 11B

Page no: [?] 253
MarriageFinder™: [?] Henry Harding Crutchley married one of the following people Transcript
BURGESS, Febpth Ann VIEW
TYLER, Alice

1911
CRUTCHLEY, Henry Head Married M 67 1844 General Haulier Stafford VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Alice Wife Married4 years F 29 1882 Leominster Hdfs VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, John Son M 3 1908 Presteigne Rads VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Arthur Son M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Radnorshire Presteigne VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Henry Son Single M 34 1877 General Hauliers Assistant Radnorshire Presteigne VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, James Son Single M 29 1882 General Hauliers Assistant Radnorshire Presteigne VIEW


RG number: RG14

Piece: 33650

Reference: RG14PN33650 RG78PN1939 RD613 SD1 ED5 SN81

Registration District: Knighton

Sub District: Presteigne

Enumeration District: 5

Parish: Presteigne

Address: Harper Street Presteigne Radnorshire

County: Radnorshire

Where have you looked in trying to find Florence?

She won't be on any census to which access is allowed.

Have you used freebmd?

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

...........put it in your favourites, and use it for all BMD's between 1837 and the mid-1950's

Marriages Mar 1876 (>99%)
Crutchley Henry Harding Kington 6a 809 #


Births Dec 1876 (>99%)
CRUTCHLEY Henry Harding Presteigne 11b 149

Marriages Sep 1889 (>99%)

Crutchley Henry Harding Liverpool 8b 37
Smith Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 37
Urion Sarah Ann Liverpool 8b 37
Urjon Sarah Ann Liverpool 8b 37

Births Sep 1891 (>99%)
CRUTCHLEY Henry Harding Birkenhead 8a 466

Jan & Maddie

There's a few things falling into place. Florence's year of birth 1913 looks right and I suppose that the claimed birth date 28th Feb 1913 and a Q2 registartion could be possible if the registration was delayed until after April 1st for some reason. The name of Burrows is new to me?

No I don't have her and Norman Nall's marriage certificate.

Another Henry Harding Crutchley born Birkenhead 1891? That's got to be connected you'd think, but I've just found on Free BMD another Henry H Crutchley dying in 1928 aged 60 in Birkenhead making him born about 10 or 11 years before the Henry H Crutchley who's grave I saw on Saturday? Puzzling?

I'm still not quite making the connection between Crutchley and Moore???

Thanks

Steve

Perhaps there isn't one...............

How much research have you done?

1881 census

Person: CRUTCHLEY, Henry H Address: Oxford Arms, Hereford St, Presteigne

CRUTCHLEY, Henry H Head Married M 37 1844 Inn Keeper
Stafford, Staffordshire VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Sarah Wife Married F 41 1840
Clun, Shropshire VIEW
BURTON, Lizzie M Step Daughter Single F 14 1867 Barmaid
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
BURTON, Annie M Step Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
BURTON, Alice Step Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
BURTON, Tom Step Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
BURTON, Ellen Step Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Henry H Son Single M 4 1877
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Frederick A Son Single M 2 1879
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Joseph Brother Single M 27 1854 General Servant (Inn)
Stourbridge, Worcestershire VIEW
REYNOLDS, Jane Servant Single F 17 1864 Genl Serv Domestic
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales

1891 census

Person: CRUTCHLEY, Henry Address: Hereford Street, Presteigne, Radnor

CRUTCHLEY, Henry Head Married M 47 1844 Timber Merchant
Stafford VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Sarah Wife Married F 51 1840
Clun, Shropshire VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Frederick Son M 10 1881 Scholar
Presteigne, Radnorshire VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, James Son M 9 1882 Scholar
Presteigne, Radnorshire VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Florence Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar
Presteigne, Radnorshire VIEW
JONES, William Lodger Married M 50 1841 Spade Tree Maker
Leintwardine, Herefordshire

To ascertain Sarah's maiden name, look for the marriage to her first husband, or buy the birth cert of any of her chidlren

1871 census


Person: BURTON, Alice Jane Address: Hereford Street Oxford Arms, Presteigne

BURTON, Thomas Head M 36 1835 Staffordshire VIEW
BURTON, Sarah Wife F 30 1841 Shropshire VIEW
BURTON, Elizabeth M Daughter F 4 1867 Radnorshire VIEW
BURTON, Annie Maria Daughter F 2 1869 Radnorshire VIEW
BURTON, Alice Jane Daughter F 1 1870 Radnorshire VIEW
PRICE, Eliza Servant F 17 1854 Radnorshire VIEW
PRICE, John Boarder M 52 1819 Radnorshire VIEW
CORBETT, James Boarder M 55 1816 Herefordshire

Burrows was the maiden name of Florence's mother

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1912 to 1914
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference

MOORE Florence May Winifred Birkenhead Wirral BURROWS BIR/259/73

Reggie

It's falling into place a bit more as I've found the death of Thomas Burton, aged 38, in Q3 of 1873 in Presteigne. Looks like old Henry has married the widowed Inn Keeper!

Looks like that Florence May Winnifred Moore was the daughter of a lady who's maiden name was Burrows, mother either Emily Lucy or Lucy Emily.

Still can't finger out the connection to Crutchley?

Research is scant as it's my wife's family and not a lot of info is very iffy.

Cheers

Steve

All

I think I've found it!

Emily L Moore marries a James H Crutchley in Q1 1916. Registered in West Derby (liverpool) rather than Birkenhead. Anyone out there who can confirm Emily's age on marriage in 1916? If it's about 34 then that will be here

Was Emily L Moore nee Burrows a war widow and married James Crutchley or had another fate befell John Peter Moore.

Thanks for everyone help so far

Steve