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hi steve
hopefully I can answer your questions sorry its late
in the grave you mention is actually my grandfather James hawkins Crutchley his brother Henry Harding and my grandmother lucy nee moore. his other brother fred is buried alongside the hedge near the main road.
the three brothers moved to Birkenhead from presteigne in Radnorshire for work they were in the haulage business . Liverpool was the second largest port at the time .the above report mentoning the oxford arms I can only assume to be correct as my dad told me his granddad Henry Harding had a pub and the census was taken 1881 before my grandfather was born 1882.
My grandfather James married lucy who had other children from previous marriage I think she was a widower her previous name was moore !
my grandfather had two boys James (dad ) and Henry Harding who was killed during ww2 in sicily buried Catania war cemetery as well as a.step sister .
please feel free to contact me if you require any further info
thanks steve regards peter
[email protected] .

Thanks to all who pointed me in the right directions. Still haven't figured out how all the Henry Harding Crutchley's are connected, but it was James who was the "Grandfather" in the end.

Thanks again

Steve

To find out age when marrying, buy the cert. It will also name her father

You can't do accurate FH research without spending money......................

could this be john peter

Death record transcript

Name: MOORE, John P

Registration district: [?] Birkenhead

County: Cheshire

Year of registration: 1914

Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec

Age at death:31

Volume no: 8A

Page no: 614

Thanks Jan spotted that!

I assume you have picked up that besides the Henry Harding Crutchley, born Radnorshire there is also one born Birkenhead. I would think it likely with that name that they were related wouldn't you - especially as the Welsh one ended up in Birkenhead too! Maybe a cousin? Uncle/nephew?
The only way of finding a possible link is to research the whole family thoroughly I suppose!
Jan

All

I think I've found it!

Emily L Moore marries a James H Crutchley in Q1 1916. Registered in West Derby (liverpool) rather than Birkenhead. Anyone out there who can confirm Emily's age on marriage in 1916? If it's about 34 then that will be here

Was Emily L Moore nee Burrows a war widow and married James Crutchley or had another fate befell John Peter Moore.

Thanks for everyone help so far

Steve

Reggie

It's falling into place a bit more as I've found the death of Thomas Burton, aged 38, in Q3 of 1873 in Presteigne. Looks like old Henry has married the widowed Inn Keeper!

Looks like that Florence May Winnifred Moore was the daughter of a lady who's maiden name was Burrows, mother either Emily Lucy or Lucy Emily.

Still can't finger out the connection to Crutchley?

Research is scant as it's my wife's family and not a lot of info is very iffy.

Cheers

Steve

Burrows was the maiden name of Florence's mother

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1912 to 1914
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference

MOORE Florence May Winifred Birkenhead Wirral BURROWS BIR/259/73

To ascertain Sarah's maiden name, look for the marriage to her first husband, or buy the birth cert of any of her chidlren

1871 census


Person: BURTON, Alice Jane Address: Hereford Street Oxford Arms, Presteigne

BURTON, Thomas Head M 36 1835 Staffordshire VIEW
BURTON, Sarah Wife F 30 1841 Shropshire VIEW
BURTON, Elizabeth M Daughter F 4 1867 Radnorshire VIEW
BURTON, Annie Maria Daughter F 2 1869 Radnorshire VIEW
BURTON, Alice Jane Daughter F 1 1870 Radnorshire VIEW
PRICE, Eliza Servant F 17 1854 Radnorshire VIEW
PRICE, John Boarder M 52 1819 Radnorshire VIEW
CORBETT, James Boarder M 55 1816 Herefordshire

1891 census

Person: CRUTCHLEY, Henry Address: Hereford Street, Presteigne, Radnor

CRUTCHLEY, Henry Head Married M 47 1844 Timber Merchant
Stafford VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Sarah Wife Married F 51 1840
Clun, Shropshire VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Frederick Son M 10 1881 Scholar
Presteigne, Radnorshire VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, James Son M 9 1882 Scholar
Presteigne, Radnorshire VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Florence Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar
Presteigne, Radnorshire VIEW
JONES, William Lodger Married M 50 1841 Spade Tree Maker
Leintwardine, Herefordshire

1881 census

Person: CRUTCHLEY, Henry H Address: Oxford Arms, Hereford St, Presteigne

CRUTCHLEY, Henry H Head Married M 37 1844 Inn Keeper
Stafford, Staffordshire VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Sarah Wife Married F 41 1840
Clun, Shropshire VIEW
BURTON, Lizzie M Step Daughter Single F 14 1867 Barmaid
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
BURTON, Annie M Step Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
BURTON, Alice Step Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
BURTON, Tom Step Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
BURTON, Ellen Step Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Henry H Son Single M 4 1877
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Frederick A Son Single M 2 1879
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Joseph Brother Single M 27 1854 General Servant (Inn)
Stourbridge, Worcestershire VIEW
REYNOLDS, Jane Servant Single F 17 1864 Genl Serv Domestic
Presteign, Radnorshire, Wales

Perhaps there isn't one...............

How much research have you done?

Jan & Maddie

There's a few things falling into place. Florence's year of birth 1913 looks right and I suppose that the claimed birth date 28th Feb 1913 and a Q2 registartion could be possible if the registration was delayed until after April 1st for some reason. The name of Burrows is new to me?

No I don't have her and Norman Nall's marriage certificate.

Another Henry Harding Crutchley born Birkenhead 1891? That's got to be connected you'd think, but I've just found on Free BMD another Henry H Crutchley dying in 1928 aged 60 in Birkenhead making him born about 10 or 11 years before the Henry H Crutchley who's grave I saw on Saturday? Puzzling?

I'm still not quite making the connection between Crutchley and Moore???

Thanks

Steve

Marriages Mar 1876 (>99%)
Crutchley Henry Harding Kington 6a 809 #


Births Dec 1876 (>99%)
CRUTCHLEY Henry Harding Presteigne 11b 149

Marriages Sep 1889 (>99%)

Crutchley Henry Harding Liverpool 8b 37
Smith Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 37
Urion Sarah Ann Liverpool 8b 37
Urjon Sarah Ann Liverpool 8b 37

Births Sep 1891 (>99%)
CRUTCHLEY Henry Harding Birkenhead 8a 466

Where have you looked in trying to find Florence?

She won't be on any census to which access is allowed.

Have you used freebmd?

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

...........put it in your favourites, and use it for all BMD's between 1837 and the mid-1950's

henry remarried
Name: CRUTCHLEY, Henry Harding

Registration district: [?] Knighton

County: Radnorshire

Year of registration: 1906

Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec

Spouse's last name Not available before 1912

Volume no: [?] 11B

Page no: [?] 253
MarriageFinder™: [?] Henry Harding Crutchley married one of the following people Transcript
BURGESS, Febpth Ann VIEW
TYLER, Alice

1911
CRUTCHLEY, Henry Head Married M 67 1844 General Haulier Stafford VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Alice Wife Married4 years F 29 1882 Leominster Hdfs VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, John Son M 3 1908 Presteigne Rads VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Arthur Son M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Radnorshire Presteigne VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, Henry Son Single M 34 1877 General Hauliers Assistant Radnorshire Presteigne VIEW
CRUTCHLEY, James Son Single M 29 1882 General Hauliers Assistant Radnorshire Presteigne VIEW


RG number: RG14

Piece: 33650

Reference: RG14PN33650 RG78PN1939 RD613 SD1 ED5 SN81

Registration District: Knighton

Sub District: Presteigne

Enumeration District: 5

Parish: Presteigne

Address: Harper Street Presteigne Radnorshire

County: Radnorshire

1911
MOORE, John Peter Head Married M 29 1882 Valet Ches Chester VIEW
MOORE, Lucy Emily Married Married6 years F 29 1882 London Cambden Town VIEW
MOORE, Emily Kathleen Daughter F 5 1906 Ches Birkenhead VIEW
MOORE, George Henry Son M 3 1908 Ches Birkenhead VIEW
MOORE, John Son M 0 (5 MONTHS) 1911 Ches Birkenhead VIEW

RG number: RG14

Piece: 21961

Reference: RG14PN21961 RG78PN1308 RD452 SD1 ED4 SN43

Registration District: Birkenhead

Sub District: Birkenhead

Enumeration District: 4

Parish: Birkenhead

Address: 72 Jackson St Birkenhead

County: Cheshire



: BURROWS, Emily Lucy

Registration district: [?] Chertsey

County: Surrey

Year of registration: 1881

Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar

Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3

Volume no:[?]2A

Page no:[?]37

Marriages Mar 1876
Bruton Sarah Kington 6a 809
Crutchley Henry Harding Kington 6a 809