General Chat

Felicity, I am not having a go at the girl. Raised 3 girls and 2 boys so I know how difficult it is. My point is that many people jump to criticise her, but where is the Law which is supposed to protect the vulnerable people in our society, including her. I would be much happier if I read that someone was going to be made liable. Jim

I just wonder how this girl will cope with everything. There was a programme on recently about a fifteen(I think) year old girl and her boyfriend living at her mothers, they had a baby and because her mother and sister seemed to do most of the caring for the baby, the girl and her boyfriend did not appear to have much idea of how to look after their baby. The programme was about a nanny who came in for two weeks to teach the girl and her boyfriend parenting skills and about being responsible for their baby. It was quite an eye opener, but at the end of the day the girl then passed on skills learned to her sister, also a teenager who had just had her baby. Some schools have "Babies" who behave like real babies and teenage girls as well as boys are encouraged to take the "baby" home for 24-48 hours to care for them. They are programmed to cry and do all the things that babies do, so that the teenagers can see what being a parent is like. I would just like to add that as an adopted child, I am grateful that termination was not freely available when I was born and feel glad that this girl really wants her baby. Sue, not Sylvia.

I know what you mean, Grampa Jim - really I do - but what if nobody is 'liable', no one is 'to blame'. If her Mum and Dad have 'done their best', if the baby's father is of a similar age and his parents 'did their best' too, what then? Ok, the law has been broken; ok, this whole sorry situation is far from ideal, but all I am really trying to say is that prosecuting someone for breaking some law - and it could be argued that several have been broken here, not just the age of consent one - won't necessarily help anything or change anything. Why prosecute in this particular case when so many other cases go unprosecuted? The legal system would grind to a halt if every infringement of the law was pursued. That was part of my original point regarding 'grey' areas - this law was intended to protect girls from sexual predators, not hound them in regard to their own sexual behaviour. What a great discussion this has been!

It is great to be able to let off steam about these things without falling out. I know we don't know all the details so we are shooting in the dark. Thanks for an interesting discussion Bob. Pity that there is a real personal tragedy at the base of it.

Just one final point, remembering Jean and the others who added a positive personal perspective on this - maybe this young girl will look back in 20 years and NOT describe this episode as a tragedy. Wouldn't that be a goodness!

Did anyone else watch this girl and her mother on Richard and Judy?

I didn't - what impression did you gain from the programme Mags?

This opens another can of worms. Doctors hide behind "Patient Confidentialty" and dish out contraceptives to underage children. Surely their Parents have not only a right but also a duty to know if their kids are contemplating sexual activity while underage.

So you dropped TART then Bob. Rose

I saw them on Richard and Judy, what a joke. The girl just sat there. When asked anything she shook or nodded her head. Some great mother she'll be, another kid dragged up as a fashion accessory. It makes me so mad. And we all end up paying for it all. What a farce!!! Diane - mad as hell

Another point that no-one has raised yet........When these children are babies it's easy to take them out for walks in their nice new buggies & in their designer clothes. It's when they get older and go to school that it becomes harder and they are not 'real dolls' any more but real little people who need more and more nurturing and caring. Maybe the so called friends who didn't mind a baby to look after will disappear as the child gets older or latch on to another 'friend' with a tiny baby. Some young mums are very lucky and have the support of both sets of grandparents, but there are just as many who find themselves alone with just a young child for company. They see all their 'friends' going out every night, only having to worry about themselves. I think this is when the trouble could start, and often does. It's hard enough bringing up a child in a 2 parent relationship - at least you have someone else to yell at besides the poor child - but for a single young inexperienced mum who's all on her own................ I'm not saying that this is always the case-----far from it----but it is a worrying problem which seems to be overlooked mostly. Sue

Does she have a name? I imagine that this is a very difficult time for her and that all this attention is not what she expected. Being on the TV can be very intimidating even if you are a budding superstar, much less an unwilling scapegoat.

Hi Felicity, I think it was probably one of Richard and Judy's more 'difficult' interviews. It's very hard when someone literally just nods or shakes their head. The girl didn't speak more than four words during the whole interview. She was asked if the pregnancy was on purpose or another 'accident'. She claims another 'accident' (one of her single word answers) but the mother disagreed. Her school has, apparently, said that she could continue her studies, which will of course mean that her mother will have the care of the child. According to her mum, she will have the support of the family. Of course the question had to be put to the mother about the school's involvement concerning the previous pregnancy - but she couldn't give a reply because of possible court proceedings pursuant to that event. I know being on television must be a terrifying experience but (and this is only a personal opinion) I don't think either of them came out of the interview looking good. It certainly didn't bring out any sympathy in me. Magsx

Thanks Mags. What a sorry situation it is. However, looking at another thread about the elderly gentleman and the difficulties his family have had finding care for him and the desparate measures they have to take, I sometimes wish the media would use a little more intelligence when they make their choices on who and what to highlight.

I bet the poor girl wishes her mother kept her gob shut now ! seriously though as said before lets not condem the girl for being young and foolish. I bet she is sh*t scared inside all of that. Now that her pregnancy is a reality. How do we know for sure that alough she says it was planned and she wants this baby, shes not acting on what her mother wants? and is too scared to tell her what she wants, after all, she was too scared to tell her mum of the first pregnancy. not saying that it was right for the doctor to authorise the termination without parental consultation, if not consent in the first place. Just supposing something had gone wrong during surgery ? The girl also went through it without her parents support. Which is hard enough let alone when youre that young. E x

Felicity, Yes she Does have a name, I purposely left it out of the discussion, I am glad that this has gone on a sensible route, I Do hope that things turn out ok, for her and the baby, Yes, also these mistakes have always been happening, as sure as summer follows spring, they will keep happening, but there are two things in life that I see, as mini tragedies, young schoolgirl mums, and teenagers especially girls, that smoke. What Adults do is up to them, but it hurts when i see youngsters ( in MY eyes) "getting it wrong"

I always thought that any medical procedure on a minor needed parantal consent, or did the school act in their stead on this occasion ?

Bob, I was sure that you had left her name out deliberately and quite right too. My comment was a reaction to something else and in retrospect uncalled for. I'm sorry. The whole scenario for this family gets more and more complicated - court case, doctor's and school acting in loco parentis without authority it seems - it's nightmarish. And then the media spotlight! There but for the grace of God .......as someone said earlier.

Thats ok, Felicity, Paul, I have reason to believe that the "school" acted without the consent of the Girl's mother This was the headline that I read, this morning. Abortion Row Girl Pregnant Again A schoolgirl who had an abortion without her mother's knowledge is pregnant again.

I read in the Metro last night (no i dont always believe wat is written in the papers) but it said that the girls mother believes that things have been done properly this time, and she is pleased for her daughter. So maybe she didnt even try to get her daughter on some decnt contraception xx