General Chat

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I don't know how many people here have come across the term GIS (Geographic Information Systems) before. Basically GIS is a set of computer programmes for collecting, storing, transforming and displaying spatial data for a particular purpose. Its used by councils, the police, shopping centres etc to map out areas and overlay maps to better understand something. For example the police might start off with a map of a particular area and then overlay a plan of where all burglaries in the last 6 months have taken place and then overlay another plan of where people have been caught using drugs in the last 6 months to see if theres any correlation between burglaries and drug use. Anyway, getting back to the point! I was wondering if people felt that more could be done about mapping areas in the recent past, e.g. 19th century to show if specific areas were dominated by specific trades, if mortality rates were higher in some streets than others, and to show whether people were more likely to stay at the same address between census returns in some areas than others. Can anyone think of any interesting comparisons they would like to make using maps?

Sounds like an interesting idea Sarah. As I perceive it the problem would be first of all obtaining the maps. I don't know if people are aware, but you can view the late Victorian ordnance survey online at www.old-maps (.co.uk) But then how would you get the other data to overlay on the map? And of course the further you go back in time the more sketchy and inaccurate in terms of scale etc maps become. Where can you get this sort of software, is it available to the public?

GIS packages cost hundreds of pounds (even student licences to use these packages can cost about £100!) The technology isn't really available to the public, although we do get to use output from it! Has anyone ever been to a shopping centre where they have interactive map terminals? They use GIS.

That's what I suspected Sarah! I suppose we would have to wait for some web site to set up a facility like that so that we could input the demographic data as individuals.

Its all so difficult to explain! It works using layers and by layering your data you can turn things on and off. You can also attach databases so that you can attribute colours to different things.

What a very interesting thread. Not sure if i understand all of it, I have to admit. But I do gather the gist of it. Am i right in thinking that the poorer the area, the more chance of malnutrition and disease, especially in the more populated cities and towns. I find it hard to believe that in populated areas where there were a lot of industries, Ie:- work to be found, pennies to be earned for food that they still suffered more than those that lived in remote areas. I stand to be corrected. Jenny

I was just interested to see what people would like to get out of maps from a genealogical standpoint. I'm having to think up a GIS project for my masters degree next year and as its an archaeology based degree I felt maybe I could do something involving mapping a 19th century town or village.

Sorry. Think this is a bit too technical for me. Shall i delete my last post. I still find it very interesting though. Jenny

I think I understand the concept Sarah. A bit like CorelDRAW or perhaps many of the photo processing packages which use layers. I can understand the problem incorporating something like that into a web site!

Mommylonglegs - don't delete your post at all :) Its good to have people joining in the discussion. I don't really want it to be all that technical! Andy - actually we do use CorelDraw to create layers before we import them into GIS packages where we can have more freedom in how we layer them and how they are spaced.

I see Sarah, I guess the first thing to do would be to choose somewhere where you get sufficient data to make the map meaningful. At the end of the day, please tell me if I'm wrong, I guess the map is the simple part. But to make it interesting you have to accumulate sufficient data.

I wondered is the LSE - Charles Booth survey into life and labour in London (1886-1903) a version of what you mean? I find these fascinating as many of my rellies lived in Kensington late 1800s to early 1900s in poverty but they gradually moved toward slightly less poverty stricken areas. (Probably shared with just one family of rats instead of ten!) The addresses where they lived are now worth millions, typical. Saz

I'm trying to find some examples so that people can see what kind of things can be done! Basically, in theory, any kind of spatial data can be used!

Well I guess as Saz indicates the Charles Booth surveys are the most detailed you could find. I may be wrong, but I think to do any other area may involve you in as much research to create the data as it would to actually do the project.

Try visiting http://216.31.193.171/asp/1_introduction.asp and play around the with data maps. This is the Environment Agency's website and you can choose which layers to show. Try looking at where landfill sites are in relation to rivers (not that I'd expect there to be any correlation!)

I've found the Booth poverty maps online at http://booth.lse.ac.uk/ Now imagine using Booth's maps and overlaying where workhouses were or where factories were or even where churches were to see if there is any correlation between depreived areas and say workhouses :)

I've also seen GIS used on medieval burial grounds to see if there is any correlation between when a person was buried and their age, sex, and any ailments they may have had. At one site, connected to a Medieval hospital they were able to show how the function of the hospital had changed over time. During one period the burials were predominantly of young/middle aged females and babies which suggested the hospital was a maternity hospital of sorts. During another the burials were predominantly of older people with complaints like arthritis. It was suggested that at this point the hospital was for the elderly and infirm who could no longer work to support themselves.

Hello again, I was musing over this thread and wondered whether you could use the census for a particular village and then map the surnames, trades, ages etc and then do the next census and so on. Starting from 1851 to 1901 this would give you a view of so many aspects of the village, effects of Industrial Revolution, employment, disease, growth/decline of the village, that sort of thing. This has really got me thinking, I love the "social" side of family history and I would definitely be interested in doing this kind of research myself - trouble is as I said before my rellies are in London - eek. Saz NB - thanks for getting the Booths website details, sorry I wasn't here to post it.

Sarah Could you take an area in (for example) the East End of London and see where everyone living there was born? It's always described as a 'melting pot', but it would be interesting to know exactly what background makes up the typical 'Victorian Cockney'. Having said that, it sounds as if your project might be a bit more technical than that!