General Chat

I am posting this in response to Rollo's entry near the end of the 'Harry and Meghan' thread:

Rollo, do you think your reference to the 'vigil' ought to have a thread of its own?

I believe it was not the time to hold a mass meeting no matter what people want to call it. I have watched television footage of this and, for what it's worth, as far as I could see, the officers only used restraint techniques against those who struggled to avoid arrest.

I have not always agreed with Cressida Dick but on this occasion I am pleased that she is backing her officers who were only doing their duty in responding to what was an illegal meeting. The Mayor of London ought to be standing firmly behind her, as should our government.

I commented on Sharon’s thread as I saw it first.

It doesn't matter, names. I think the three of us are of like minds over this.

I was both saddened and sickened by what happened to Sarah so much so that I lit a candle and placed it in my porch at 21:30 on Saturday. to remember her<3

However, I totally disagreed with the mass gathering that took place on Clapham Common on Saturday evening. I think the Police were caught between a rock and a hard place and put in a position that they were damned if do and damned if they don't.
Apart from the serious Covid health aspect allowing it to go on would set a precedent for all future mass gatherings meaning any future court cases against those charge with mass gathering offences would be thrown out of court.

It wasn't a pretty sight seeing male police officers handcuffing young females but like with a lot of news coverage we don't no what led to those actions :-(

If anyone watches the police programmes on TV they will see not all young females are 'ladylike' and are downright agressive and nasty bits of work. The police were only doing their jobs and if they hadn't have acted as they did a lot of people would have something to say. They are between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Sorry JoyLouise, I think we must have posted at the same time.

I did look down to see if there was another thread about the vigil/demonstration befoe I started typing but, as you can see, that took a bit of time to do.

In a few weeks time large numbers of football supporters, mostly men, will be allowed into Wembley so as to watch the FA Cup Final. No social distancing.
That's all right then.

Men who attack, injure and murder women fall into two categories. The first terrorise their partners too often leading to murder and too often not taken seriously by the police until it is too late. The current situation with reported rapes and lack of action by the CPS is lamentable.

The second selects a woman at random with murder following physical abuse. This group are nearly always serial offenders sometimes over many years. A detailed history of Wayne Couzens is no doubt being researched. If not why not ?

Cressida Dick has form for police disasters notably being in charge at the shooting of Mr Menezes , an innocent man, and another police shooting of a suspect which led to the Tottenham riots of a few years ago. She is responsble for the out of control stop and search policy.

Given the current drift of Home Office policy under Preti Patel Dick is probably safe in her job. It is worth noting that on the night of the vigil there was only trouble in London. Kate Middleton was not arrested.

The following day in Parliament Square a demo as large as Clapham was allowed to follow its natural course ending before 7pm. No arrests, undoubtedly word from the top.

All of those keeping vigil wore masks. Undoubtedly the distance rules were broken but given that the boffins do not rate covid transmission outside as a high risk the savagery of the police was extraordinary especially as those arrested were very soon released after being given a £ 200 fine. They were no threat to anybody except those with a p poor understanding of covid.

I have friends and rellies who have lived around Clapham Flatiron for over 100 years and have worked for the Met since the 1930s to now. They are appalled at current events and also the way in which C Dick and P Patel have lost London.
Most people avoid them as far as possible, it is regarded as an operation entirely out of control inspired by Judge Dread.

For most of the people posting here modern London is terra incognita. It shows.
Londoners themselves have not changed very much since 1381.

I am entirely with Kath.

Kath?

Do you mean the Kath/Kathleen who posted on the other thread?

yes

Do you mean the demo organised by Sisters Uncut supported by All Black Lives, Rollo?

LG...my thoughts exactly, there is no way I would have described the gathering as a Vigil.

Some of the comments written on their home made placards were disgusting!

It seems odd that Sisters Uncut and Reclaim the Streets did not get their acts together and decide to show some unity by demonstrating together at the same time, after all, they are not dissimilar in their aims - violence, particularly against women. The fact that they did so separately raises suspicions in me; there seems to be something of an undercurrent by holding another illegal meeting the day after the police had to contend with a group of idiots determined to break covid regulations. I wonder whether there was something of a taunt to it all.

I have not always agreed with Dick and certainly not with Patel but on the second occasion, following the earlier response by media, I would have said that they lost their nerve in view of press coverage.

For me, the second demo ought to have elicited the same response as the first as it, too, was an illegal gathering. The law needs to be upheld and seen to be upheld otherwise anarchy will prevail.

I have seen questions about whether Cressida Dick will hold onto her job. Of course she should. She and the force did nothing wrong . They broke up an illegal, irresponsible gathering by people who knew what they were doing and who placed lives in danger from the spread of coronavirus.


Edit: I have been wondering how many at those two demonstrations were simply there because they were bored, sick of covid restrictions and wanted to get out and mix and fill their time in?

Joy it was a case of rent a mob methinks. I do feel for the family and friends of Sarah and a doorstep vigil would have been quite adequate to show respect for the young lady. Bless her <3

I am just watching the news report about last years Cheltenham Festival where people were told it was fine to gather outdoors as long as they observed hygiene and one person who believes he caught Covid there.

I thought we had learned a bit in the meantime.

The primary duty of the police is "to uphold the Queen's Peace" which is inculcated during basic training. Following that to protect the lives and property of her subjects. Enforcing the often time contradictory and impossible decisions of politicians aka "the Law" comes last.

The police are supposedly independent of Westminster which is why we have a large ( too large some would say ) number of forces in England. It is also why there was very little trouble relating to Sarah Everard away from London.

Cressida Dick has badly lost her way but not as yet to such a point as to get the chop.

I don't see any reason why half of the nation's people should be treated as second class simply because of possible terrorism from the other half. . Here is an idea for a new law. Half of the MPs must be female all the way up to the Cabinet.

I saw that, Sharron. The poor man was very ill and he even developed gangrene.

I don't see any reason why half of the nation should be treated as second class citizens either, Rollo. Nor do I see any reason why, because of your gender, you should feel exempt from the law.

I am not at all sure about positive discrimination though. It concerns me that sometimes it is the loudest who are given jobs to hush them up almost as much as my concerns over nepotism.

It ought always to be the best person you think capable for the job rather than offering jobs to fill a quota.

Crowds are now in Parliament Square with even more disgusting placards...mainly directed at our Police.

I feel so sorry for the family who are asking these people not to come out and demonstrate.
:-(

BBC Radio 5 Live

A retired police officer has told BBC Radio 5 Live Saturday's vigil for Sarah Everard should have been facilitated and allowed to go ahead.

Ch Supt Owen West was a public order protest specialist for West Yorkshire Police.

"It was was an opportunity, not a threat, for the police to engage, to reassure, and to learn from the young women there, in relation to their lived experience," he says.

He says too often the police see protest crowds as potentially inherently dangerous and violent.

The government should think about police resources, he says, and consider the "values, principles and ethics" they want them to uphold.

"It's not just a numbers game," he says. "It's not so much the quantity, it's the quality, it's the type of responses, it's the type of skills that are invested in."

That would be a case of one rule for one and one rule for another. What is more important a vigil or your health . The doorstep vigil was much more appropriate and indeed I support that. Next thing I fear is a sharp rise in the Covid rate due to thoughtless and selfish folk.

I agree LaG.

Just watching the protest on Sky now and, as on Saturday, even when the Police are trying to push some protesters away the idiots keep goading them.