General Chat

Referenda are the antithesis of representative democracy. No wonder Mrs May us finding the road to the cannery somewhat bumpy.

Yesterday Steve clarke, the Brexit minister, proposed a S50 delay to the House. He then voted against it.

A second referendum is supposedly Labour policy. Given the chance to vote for it Corbyn instructed his troops not to.

Parliamentary rules prevent a vote on the same item in a single session. Yet May's unloved deal is being wheeled out again next Tuesday. The excuse, so far, is that the UK can ignore international treaty law when it suits.

All of the delay and confusion is down to Rees mogg and friends who believe in threats and lies not democracy.

Enjoy.


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'If at first you don't succeed, try, try again'. (Mrs May or may not.) :-S

Why do we have general elections every few years? Surely by failing to respect the result of the previous one it is undemocratic

I voted to Remain in the Referendum. However, I'm fully aware that by living in a Democracy we follow the wishes of the MAJORITY and the vote was to leave and leave is what we should do.

I'm against having another vote just because things have become difficult it would make an absolute farce of our Democracy of which I'm very proud of. Leaving the EU was never going to be easy but MPs should put aside their own individual political agendas and put the people of this country first afterall that is what they have been elected to do.

The EU also have their own agenda why would they make life easy for one of their biggest financial contributors to leave; The UK leaving will make their balance sheet rather lopsided in the longterm!

All this dithering is not doing our economy or country any good...please, please, please can we just move on!

'Brexit' is costing the country £500 million a week.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/29/britain-bill-brexit-hits-500-million-pounds-a-week

Why do some Politicians think they can go against what the country decided.
Out means OUT. Their opinions don't count.

. The sooner the better, cause the EU is sucking the life out of this country financially.
Am sick of us having to bail out other countries . Our taxes, our money, our Country first not last.

The EU want to make it hard for us to leave, cause they need us and our money.
my answer to them is s*d off.

The EU is the biggest scam in history :-(
When I voted out I wanted Out and still do sooner the better :-( :-(

Ummm....maybe just maybe...the bosses are trying to make it a tad difficult for the Uk to leave to frighten other countries from leaving.....

As for the misunderstanding....I'm not sure I'd need to check with my mother whether she received the booklet or not, but misunderstanding or not that's what lots believed...trade was what they believed and that was what the teachers were telling us kids....not political control.

Then lay your money down!

https://www.yell.com/biz/betpoint-southampton-8137913/#view=popup4923

"But I said "Well there must be more"
When some man said he fought in the war
For me and I was ungrateful
He said "Gimme another drink Mable
For all those good times then".
And Mable said "You can say that again".
And they did 'till they were unable.
They laid their money down,
They just laid their money down."

R Mctell

Yes.

Whatever happens in the future of the EU, our exit will set a precedent.

Do really, seriously think that the go almighty clusterf which is brexit is likely to inspire emulation by another EU state? Even the clowns running ( or not ) Italy and Hungary have gone cold on the idea.

Serbia and Montenegro are expected to join by 2025.

heh heh

I think we need to remember that everybody is flying blind on this one. There is no precedent at all and, should other countries consider leaving in the future, and they surely will, our exit will set their precedent.

"back in 1975 people were told they were joining a union of trading partners"
This is a popular myth.
The government paid for a free copy of the Treaty of Rome to be sent to every UK household. Most I guess did not bother to read it.

Anyway ... page 1.

Treaty of Rome

The 1957 Treaty Establishing the European Community contained the objective of “ever closer union” in the following words in the Preamble. In English this is: “Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe …..”.

Article 2 of the Treaty also promoted the ‘spirit’ of closer union in its description of the aims of the Community, ending with “closer relations between the States belonging to it”.

It has never been possible for a technologically advanced medium size state to stand alone in the modern era. In order to survive they have to compromise on their independence to greater or lesser degree. Japan, S Korea, Canada threw in their lot with the USA. The UK could have done the same but chose not to.

Instead it decided to join in with a bunch of countries many of whom it had been at war with at one time or another. The economics of this were sound the politics less so which is why we are where we are today.

Up until the Lisbon Treaty the UK could have pulled out of the EU without too much collateral damage so long as it joined NAFTA. ROI would probably have gone along with it. This option was in fact explored in depth by the UK with the unsuprising conclusion that it could work very well .... for the Brits. Uncle Sam's lot though rapidly cooled on the idea as they felt the UK, larger than any state, would throw its weight around thus reversing the Boston Tea Party. And so we went with Lisbon.

Since then businesses based in the UK have taken full advantage. The politics has signally failed to keep ujp thanks largely to the red top press and chancers such as Aaaron Banks, Rees-Mogg and UKIP.

Hug your friends but hug your enemies closer.

Really Rollo well Canada is made up with the same class system as the UK, and the politicians are just the same they think they know best, can't speak for Australia.

Anyway back in 1975 people were told they were joining a union of trading partners.....but we've been through this before haven't we......

On the handful of times when I visited Canada I did not see much evidence of the great unwashed far from it. Otoh what the ERG calls Empire2 has as much chaos at the top as the UK. Yep, Ottawa, Canberra. At least they have the grace not to poke the eye of London unlike several fragile EU states headed by France, Spain and Austria.

Decisions aren't always easy.

Some cannot decide what they really want until its unceremoniously plonked on their lap.

Not at all Caroline. Tory PM Heath dragged a reluctant UK (and EU) into the EU with no thought of referenda. Against the background of the first miner's strike Labour Wilson returned to power. The LP were riven by EU membership with a majority, led by far leftie Tony Benn, dead against. Wilson had a small majority and opted for a popular vote to hold his party together in the same way as Cameron in 2010. There was no Deep State.
This is real life - snafu - not tv.

"Well Caroline we had a referendum in 1975."

Noooooo really!!

If I remember correctly that like this was careful/cleverly worded to try and get everyone to do the right thing eg what the men in control wanted.

Let's be honest most politicians would be happiest if the great unwashed masses never had a vote in anything.....

Quite.

The percentage difference is similar to the 2016 Referendum result.
If that vote was fair and acceptable to you, so should this vote be.