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No, I've just accessed the photo online again and gone to the page.
It's actually "Chairing Captain Vernon, winner of the King's Prize at Bisley, where the ranges of the National Rifle Association are situated" dated July 1st 1921
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Jem, I've tried to do a comparison between the two faces and I don't think that they are the same.
And, just to reassure you, I think that it was Bisley, and a genuine team just letting off steam after finishing their event.
Service humour has always included a lack of respect for 'Authority' especially 'Higher Authority' I would hate to tell you about some of the things that the guys in my own particular TAVR unit (myself included) got up to on whilst in uniform.
Suffice it to say that we had our own special title of 'rumour control" :-D :-D
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Thanks Allan :-)
That's a relief! :-D :-D
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The guy in white in Bisley Winners pic looks the same as the guy on the left in the Thomas Lyne pic.
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I wondered about the man in the white with the hat in my photo being the same man as the one in the internet photo in a cricket-type jumper ..... but I think it's just my imagination taking over lol :-D :-D :-D
But as you also think it may be... perhaps so :-D
or ... the one in white with the binoculars in the internet photo :-D
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Could be below?...
Chris :)
1911 (Find My Past)
Charles William Churcher Head Married Male 38 1873 Wickham Hants Greengrocer Army Pensioner
Annie Churcher Wife Married Female 35 1876 Penyance Cornwall Assisting In The Business
Charles William Churcher Son - Male 14 1897 Devonport Devon Assisting In The Business
May Gertrude Churcher Daughter - Female 10 1901 Newcastle on Tyne Northumebrland School
30 Tavistock Road Stoke Devonport, Devonport, Devon
02 October 1926 - Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate & Cheriton Herald - Folkestone
C.S.M.I. and Mrs. Churcher, dinner service and pair of pictures. Mr. and Mrs. H. Churcher, satin eiderdown. Sergt. A. Crawley and Miss Bradshaw, cut glass and silver salad bowl with servers. Miss A. Churcher, antique coffee pot...
(with a list that goes on, lol)
(relates to below)
Marriages Sep 1926 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Churcher May G Crawley Elham 2a 3087
Crawley Frederick Churcher Elham 2a 3087
Birth
CHURCHER, MAY GERTRUDE (ROBERTS)
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B Page 104
Marriages Dec 1895 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Churcher Charles William Stoke D. 5b 682
Roberts Georgy Hannah Stoke D. 5b 682
Births Jun 1873 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------------
CHURCHER Charles William Fareham 2b 511
09 July 1924 - Sheffield Daily Telegraph - Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England
Good Score in Army Shot
C.S.M.I. C. W. Churcher, Small Arms School, with a remarkably fine score of 164 out of a possible 200, made follows: Rapid 45, snap shooting 32, deliberate 44, fire with movement 43. Congratulations were showered upon Churcher, who was then borne ...”
02 July 1927 - Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate & Cheriton Herald - Folkestone
THE BISLEY MEETING C.S.M.I. CHURCHER’S SUCCESS The Bisley meeting opened this -week and, as in other years, the Small Arms School, Hythe, is represented by a strong team of marksmen. The Small Arms School won a notable success on Tuesday, when C.S.M.I C.W. Churcher won the Roupell Cup with a score of 85...
09 July 1924 - Birmingham Daily Gazette - Birmingham, West Midlands
BEST ARMY SHOT.
shot in the Home Army was won by Company- Sergeant-Maior Instructor of Musketry Churcher. now of the School of Musketry, Hythe, who made 164, consisting of 43, 32, 44, and 43. Churcher is a young man of 29, with the build of a typical fusilier. He is a native of Devonport, and came home from Canada when war broke out and served with the 2nd Lincolns.
(lots of snippets!)
Medal Index Cards Transcription (Find My Past)
First name(s) Chas W
Last name Churcher
Year 1914-20
Service number 1692, 749
Second service number 749
Rank Sergeant,Sergeant
Second rank Sergeant
Regiment Lincolnshire Regiment, School Of Musketry
Second corps School Of Musketry
Service record Soldier Number: 1692, Rank: Sergeant, Corps: Lincolnshire Regiment
Second service record Soldier Number: 749, Rank: Sergeant, Corps: School of Musketry
1939 Register (Find My Past)
73 Dymchurch Road , Hythe M.B., Kent,
Charles Churcher 28 Apr 1873 Male Firearms Ammunition & Fishing Tackle Dealer Married
Georgina A Churcher 21 Oct 1875 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Edits (although he might have been below, lol)
Deaths Sep 1954 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Churcher Charles W 81 Newton A. 7a 477
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar#calendar
(1954 on above)
Death in Kent 1951?, not seeing...
(if wife below?)
Deaths Sep 1942 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
Churcher Georgina A 67 Penzance 5c 214
08 October 1942 - Cornishman - Penzance, Cornwall, England
WEST CORNWALL FUNERALS
MRS. G. A, CHURCHER, AT HEAMOOR. The funeral took place at Penzance Borough cemetery on Wednesday afternoon, of Mrs. Georgina Annie Churcher, aged years, of The Retreat, Heamoor, Penzance, who died on 28th ...
(list of Mourners, (Husband C.W Churcher) (C.W. Churcher (Son) (Mrs. F. Crawley Daughter)...
(Mr. and Mrs. Churcher had lived in Penzance for the past two years, having moved from Hythe, Kent, where they had lived for many years)...
(the 1895 Marriage is on FMP (image) Charles (22) occ. Serjeant. His Father Stephen, occ Baker)
Devon Baptisms Transcription (Find My Past)
First name(s) Charles William
Last name Churcher
Birth year 1896
Birth date 01 Sep 1896
Baptism year 1896
Baptism date 16 Sep 1896
Denomination Anglican
Place Devonport, St Aubyn
Father's first name(s) Charles William (occ. Sarjeant)
Mother's first name(s) Georgy Hannah
(Abode, 12, Aubyn Street Devonport)
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Wow! Thank You so much Chris for the above info :-)
I'm sure that you have the right people! And very likely that it is not an Army Team (as my Uncle thought when he wrote on the photo) but actually a team from the Hythe Small Arms School or even the Hythe School of Musketry.
I have a photograph of one of my uncles as a small boy, playing on a tricycle outside the Army Married Quarters in Hythe, which leads me to believe that my Grandparents were living there at some point. Although this photograph would have been taken around 1934.
My Grandfather's older brother and younger sister also lived in Hythe. Previously they had all lived in Woking.
Strangely, my Grandfather's mother's maiden name was Crawley, but she only had sisters, but I am wondering if there is a distant family connection to the Crawley in the photo.
My Gran was from Newchurch, Kent originally, and lived in Jesson (St Mary's Bay) while her sister lived in Dymchurch. She was a divorcee with 3 children when she met my Grandfather and married him in 1930. She lived for many years with her first husband in Burmarsh Road, Hythe.
So I think you have hit the nail on the head, Chris.
Thank You very much :-)
edited... Incidentally, the Charles Churcher that competed in the Summer Olympics in 1908 according to wikipedia was 1873-1951. I expect that the Wikipedia death date is wrong.
Could the CSMI Churcher involved in the 1927 Bisley Competition be the father or the son?
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Jem, with the information from Chris, and looking further at the photo,
the man on the far right is a staff-sergeant in the army, the chap next to him appears to be a warrant officer class 2, as does the third from the right.
Their badges of rank appear different from those I'm used to as the two WO's (if that is indeed their rank) appear to be have bulky badges of rank. the chap second from the right appears to be earing a medal which could have been presented to him as well as a cup for winning an event.
One further thought is that the chap third from the left also appears to have some sort of cross just below the badge of rank....perhaps crossed muskets or rifles?
WO2's would be known either as Company Sergeant Majors or just Sergeant majors depending on their position within their units.
As for not being an army team, don't discount the fact that both the Schools you mentioned would have been actual army establishments.
When I was doing my technical training most of the initial courses were done at the Army School of Health and that was definitely a major establishment.
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Thank You Allan :-)
That is very interesting.
It would make sense that the schools would be army establishments, as would the badges with crossed rifles or muskets (there are actually one on each arm of the soldier third from the right) being as Chris posted about Churcher being Company- Sergeant-Major Instructor of Musketry in the School of Musketry in Hythe.
I can't believe how much information I have had already by posting it on here!
Thanks Everyone :-)
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I have found this on Wikipedia, including pictures of badges
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Arms_School_Corps
Photographs of the Hythe School of Musketry
http://www.kentfallen.com/PDF%20reports/HYTHE%20SCHOOL%20OF%20MUSKETRY.pdf
Copied & Pasted from
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01wsb1y
Hythe, Kent: School of Musketry
Originally established in the mid-19th Century, the Hythe School of Musketry played a major role in World War One.
The skills in firearms and marksmanship taught to officers at the school were cascaded throughout the British army and meant that soldiers on the Western Front were able to offset the early superior machine-gun power of the German army.
The school's success coined the phrase "the mad minute" the ability of soldiers to fire their rifles 15-20 times in 60 seconds.
The BBC’s Dominic King paid a visit to the site of the school, which is now occupied by a supermarket.
Location: Hythe, Kent CT21 5AS
Photograph courtesy of Imperial War Museums
Presented by Dominic King
Release date: 28 May 2014
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Interesting mention of Winterbourne Gunner in the Wikipedia article, Jem.
I spent time there myself but by then it had become known as the Chemical Defence School...it's located not very far from Porton Down.
I see that it has since been re-named again
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ALAS AND ALACK AND WOE IS ME! :-0 :-0:-( :-( :-(
I have had a reply to my email to the NRA Museum!:-D
Here it is!
Dear Ms .......
Thank you for your e-mail of 21st January 2018.
Having looked carefully at the photo, I have come to the conclusion that it is of a group of friends having a bit of fun!
We do have a picture here of the Army VIII of 1927,and they are all officers or sergeants, and I am afraid none of the gentlemen therein appear in your photograph.
The prizes in the “Extra Prizes Aggregate” in 1927 were a silver cup, a ten ton truck of coal, a case of Canadian whisky, a case of shooting sherry, and eight cash prizes, and alas none of those appear in your photograph. What I do see is a chamber pot, a number of tin plates, two beer bottles (probably empty!), a water jug, a washing bowl and assorted boxes.
Yours sincerely
Roger Mundy
Deputy Curator
NRA Museum
Oh well! :-D :-D :-D
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It was nice while it lasted, Jem......
BUT.....where did they get the small arms from, and why no mention of CSMI Burcher?
refer to Chis Ho's earlier post
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Yes Allan, it is all very strange :-D :-D :-D
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Shame Jem but out of these sort of things we learn something new.
Condolences to OH re Bro... :-(
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UPDATE!
Since posting this thread new information has come to light!
My Grandfather WAS INDEED stationed at The School of Musketry in Hythe Kent.
He served as a WARRANT OFFICER Class 2 and I now have his military records! :-D
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/107959756
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/98403462
But whether or not he was in a shooting team at Bisley is still an unanswered question, but quite possible I suppose!
In 1939 he was employed as a CIVILLIAN ARMAMENTS INSTRUCTOR (as entered on the 1939 Register) based at the Ordnance Depot in Pembrey, Carmarthenshire, South West Wales.
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/keepsafe/asset/details/108025868
My gran and the children were still living on the Isle of Sheppey at that time and followed on later and that's how come I'm WELSH ;-) :-D
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That looks interesting Maggie, thanks :-)
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