Genealogy Chat

Hi The doorway I mentioned is I think called the sallyport. I can tell you that around 1850/60 there was a lot of advertising. Various organisations were there to help. Savings clubs were recommended (one person went with a group saving club paid fare and sent money home to pay for others.) Poor Law Unions subsidised fares. Errm, the courts gave you a free passage! Places on Oz and NZ also subsidised fares. The richer people out there paid for labourers and domestic servants to go out. You hear a fair amount about how hard life was for the emmigrants. You hear very little about how hard life was for those who stayed. pm me with an email addy for more info. C

Thank you Clive for the correction.... I remember now. I think that's near Sallyport? I like sitting on the Round Tower watching the ships in and out of harbour. We may be in Hampshire soon taking f-in-l to Fort Nelson so I may be able to visit Old Portsmouth on the same day. Not quite the same..... but regarding emmigration to New Zealand and Australia..... Did people write to UK and recruit?....advertise somewhere?....or did people upsticks and go because someone had told them there were opportunities there? Gwyn

The monument is actually in old Portsmouth between the Round and Square Towers and very close to a doorway in the old walls so you can look out onto the harbour entrance. If you are coming by car probably the best parking space will be near garrision church which is within yards of the two giant links of the memorial. Re transportation: It went on for quite a long time so what happens near the end is different from what happens to begin with. Not sure when it started but towards the end of transportation women travelled in seperate ships - but were still treated badly! Clive

Once again some great contributions. Brenda Thank you for the sailing calendar of events....a very clear picture of happenings. I know there is a memorial to one of the first sailings to Australia, on Southsea seafront. I must go and take a look sometime, now that it has more meaning to me. Clive Drip feeding is fine....and all that this old brain can take sometimes. I like to read 'round' a subject to gain a better idea of the real happenings, so your information is always of interest to me. Many thanks everyone. Gwyn

Probably driving you nuts with this drip feed:- Doctors on convict ships The ships of First Fleet and later naval and convict ships carried doctors as medical officers. Often these medical officers kept a journal, whether for private or official purposes. There were 10 medical officers on the 11 ships of the First Fleet, under the direction of Surgeon General John White. John White's journal is now one of the most treasured of the First Fleet documents. A doctor came out as surgeon on nearly every convict ship throughout the period of transportation of convicts to Australia, which lasted until 1868, and involved something in the order of 1,600 voyages. About 350 surgeons are mentioned by name in Charles Bateson's legendary book on the Convict Ships. Many made more than one voyage. Is any of this of real use to you? Clive Buckle

This is quite a good article for your purpose except it is dated 1845 (and seems to still be talking about purely sailing ships). Fifteen years earlier trans-atlantic ships were frequently partly steam ships. The article is interesting as it mentions children. http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Convict_Ships It is written by the ships doctor!

Looks like a correction to the date for doctors - I'll keep looking but first, in an article about shipping:- The 1855 Passenger Act introduced cooked meals for all emigrants and a doctor but I know that earlier than that doctors were carried and for Oz and NZ matrons were onboard to keep an eye on girls onboard and to do something about education during the voyage. C

Gwyneth, In answer to your question regarding how long it took.Well...the 1st voyage took..... Set out from Portsmouth May 13th 1787. Arrived Tenerife June 3rd.Left June 10th. Crossed equator July 5th. Arrived Rio de Janeiro Aug 7th.Left Sept 4th Arrived Cape Town Oct 13th.Left Nov 12th. Off Adventure Bay,Van Diemens Land New Years Day. Arrived Botany Bay Jan 18th.1788. They picked up specimens and seeds from all these places,as well as re-stocking with food. Not many died on the 1st voyage,as it was in their interests to keep them healthy to start the new colony. Brenda

Six to nine months depending on the weather, how good the captain was, how long they stopped in each port. Women were transported in seperate cages to give them some protection. Parliament got upset from time to time about how badly the women were treated on passage. from something like 1838 all passenger ships (including convict transports) had to have a doctor onboard Clive

Lots of great help here...Thank you. We are trying to sort out the Australian-bound ones at the moment but all records and ideas are useful. I'll take a look at the book sale too....Thanks for the tip. I had no idea that people were held for so long before transportation. How long would it take say from London to Australia in 1840s? Would they travel direct, apart from perhaps going into port to re stock...or would they stop at a port for some time? Anyone know? Gwyn

Mary Two comments on that. The first is that the 'Home Children' movement did not get really going until 1870 which is not the early to mid 1800s asked about. The second is that too many people judge by todays standards. The treatment of the kids in the workhouses was quite terrible. I am excluding the treatment handed out to kids of a century later by Oz. Ordinary life for the very poor was so bad that children were known to commit crime so as to spend winter in prison as a better option. C

How about this for a quote Under the common law, no child under the age of 7 could be charged with a criminal offence. Beyond that age children were assumed to be criminally responsible, though the element of youth was recognised as a mitigating factor in relation to punishment. The law changed in1908 with the introduction of the childrens act. Good old days? C

Gwyneth, you might want to investigate the 'Home Children' sent to Canada. They weren't transported for a criminal offence, but they might as well have been for all the difference it made.

Thanks for that,Mike. I have just ordered Bound for Botany Bay and 2 others on Family History in the sale. I have a convict from the 1st fleet in my tree,who was transported on 'The Charlotte',the same ship that the ITV programme 'The Incredible Journey of Mary Bryant'was about.It was broadcast a few months ago,and was very well done. I have a chart on my wall here in the study,and it gives lists of names of all the convicts on each ship on the 1st fleet ,so if anyone wants me to do a check to see if their ancestor is on ,I will be quite happy to do so. Brenda

The national Archives site is selling books of at sale prices, i've just bought one called Bound For Botany Bay. the proper price is £20 sale price £5. Anyone researching relatives who were transported might be interested. Mike

Have just checked my notes 1717 J.P.s able to sentence to transportation for up to 7 years - mainly for robbery, burglary, forgery. A 3 year sentence was available prior to this. 1760 160 crimes carried the death penalty (from as little as pick-pocketting or stealing goods valued at £2 or upwards in gravity). However only about one third of death sentences were carried out, the remainder were commuted to transportation where even a Life sentence normally only lasted 14 years if the convict did not earn further sentences. A person sentenced to transportation stayed in gaol for 4 to 6 weeks until the sentence was confirmed - certainly in the 19th century if male they then waited anything up to 5 years in a hulk (wearing legirons etc and doing hard labour) before transportation; if female transportation was immediate to increase the number of females in the colonies. Women in the convict ships had a very rough time of it (even by the rough standards of the day). In North America transportees were sold off; unskilled males for about £10, tradesmen for £15 - £20, women cost about £8 or £9. Indentured servants (described by some as surrogate slaves) usually signed for periods of 2 to 7 years. Their sale was to pay for the cost of the sea passage. The treatment of both convicts and indentured servants was as bad as that meted out to black slaves. The difference was that convicts/servants knew their slavery was for a definite time (and their children were free) but blacks were generally slaves until death and their children were born slaves. Good old days? C

Thanks anyway Clive. Gwyn

Problem on trials (for transportation) is that even the magistrates courts could hand out the sentence. I have not tried looking for them coz it was hard enough for high court sessions. Clive

Thank you for your replies. I am helping a friend to identify people transported in the early to mid 1800s. We know names but without an idea of ages it is difficult to determine which William, James etc. is recorded. They are all of interest for her registered One Name Study. How easy is it to find trial records, .... Does anyone know? Maybe these would give an idea of age? Gwyn

What date are you asking about? Some of the sending of children abroad was pretty close to transportation and they had done nothing wrong. Clive