Genealogy Chat

on the 1881 census listing for my husbands great great grandparents it list them as 'gyspy hawkers' - we know that they were indeed travellers - i think they were all the same thing. 'Traveller' could also mean 'travelling showman' ie with a fairground or circus Samantha

Janine, I posed this question a while ago. On one census one of my male ancestors was down as "away travelling". I've since learned that he was an optician. A mobile optician?? The mind boggles! Maybe he was just away on a jolly.

THANKYOU - EVERYONE for all your replies. I hadn't logged onto this site for a couple of days (flu) but I do very much appreciate all the entries. Cheers Janine from OZ

I would agree that it is more likely to be a commercial traveller / salesman. I came across a several households of gypsies or more likely Irish tinkers in the census for a rural part of Yorkshire. They obviously did not trust officialdom as most had their name, age, relationship, place of birth etc listed as "N.K."! Martin

There is a rootsweb message board for Gypsies, look in Google brenda

You could try this website. It gives good descriptions of occupations, but doesn't have "traveller"! http://www.*rmhh.*co.*uk/occup/

I agree with Judith about a journeyman. My understanding is that he had to work for a certain number of years, often with the master he trained with, before he could attain the status of master himself and be able to take on apprentices of his own. Someone who moved around with his work was often noted as a 'sojourner', meaning he had temporary residence in that parish. Cazza

journeyman was the stage in a craftsman's career between apprentice and master. I think I remember being taught that it comes from the french 'jour' because they were paid by the day?

I'm quite pleased I joined in the thread now as i've just learnt something...............thanks Brian.

Helen, I seem to remember gypsies or tramps being referred to as 'gentlemen of the road' Judith

Remember that in her time the Railways were well established. The term traveller at that period would imply travelling Salesman, although of course it could just be someone on his holidays.

I think you will find that a journeyman is an artisan who travelled around woking on a short-term basis, as opposed to being established in trading premises.

My husbands fathers side of the family were travellers from Ireland .... later hawkers. This I have come to think of as GYPSY'S I have found on my gran's father side the word JOURNEYMAN used for alsorts of occupations briklayer JOURNEYMAN, Jewellery JOURNEYMAN etc etc. I've come to think of these as SALESMAN .

You also get hawkers as well which were kind of salesmen types. Pegs and the like. We always thought our family had gypsies in the distant past but I think hawkers are something slightly (only slightly mind!!) different. Especially around the Hampshire area if this helps??

Just to throw a spanner in the works, my G G G Grandfather Albert Gurney is listed as a Traveller in the 1841 Census. When his son was born in 1842 the occupation on the birth certificate was gentleman. Also gentleman on Albert's death cert. in 1842. I've never know a gypsy, or a salesman for that matter, be referred to as a gentleman. Perhaps he was a posh salesman!

I think all the references I have come across to travellers put them in the gypsy/tinker/casual worker camp. Plenty of references in parish records to baptisms and burials of travellers, often without even a name.

I am waiting (impatiently) for the arrivsl of my g.grandparents marriage certificate which will confirm which George Drake it was. But from what I can see at the time of my grandmothers birth (3years after the marriage) they were still in the same area. Morley Yorkshire. So I just assumed that he was a salesman. However as I can't find anything else on them (no one seems to know any Drakes in Morley) he may have become a Gypsy. I will soon find out I expect. Cheers Janine

Hi, At that time it could have been that he was a travelling salesman. "A traveller in ladies underwear" was an old music hall joke. Gwynne

I actually thought it would be a travelling salesman. If he was a gypsy it's no bl**dy wonder I can't find them any more. Thanks Paul. Cheers Janine from OZ

these days its what they use to refer to Gypsies