Genealogy Chat

whereabouts is Francis your ggg-gf in 1841? He's in Aylesbury in 1851 William's birthplace is shown as Wingrave, is that where Esther is in 1841? Is William with her? I'd be more inclined to connect William with the Fleets you say are living next door, though coincidences happen when there are so many around You might have to collect all the Fleets from the Wingrave PRs and sort them all out

Hi Robin Glad to see someone peservering!! Right, we found a marriage for William Fleet snr to Esther Hedges oct 1835. They had a daughter in 1837 called Phoebe Matilda. Wiliiam jnr was born Jan 1841 after William snr died in oct 1840. However then Esther has another son called Henry in 1847 , on his birth cert the father is named as Charles Fleet!!!! She obviously liked keeping it in the family, although we can't find Charles, or her marrying him!! In 1851 & 1861 Esther is living on an annuity. I think we found her in Bucks in 1841, living next to some other Fleets. Fleet was a common name in Bucks & they all seemed to have been carpenters too, which doesn't help. My g.g.g. grandfather Francis was born in Wingrave, he did have a brother called William b.1803 approx (age would fit with William snr) but I think he married someone else, not Esther & died later than 1840. Francis also had another brother called Charles (b.1800 approx) no idea what happened to him!! However, there was also another Francis Fleet in Aylesbury who married in 1802 to Sarah, it could be this branch William is related to? I'm going for a lie down!!! lol See what you can come up with. Thanks for your help, regards, Joan.

can you find Esther and the baby in the 1841 census? Can you find Esther's marriage? How much have you got on Francis? Could William and Charles be brothers of his? What was his father's name? Could the Francis named on William's marriage cert actually be his grandfather?

Thanks Kate & Robin, I think I have 1841 census with my g.g.g. granddad on it, no sign of a William!! I think i'll get someone to check at the records office for the cert dets. Yes, that death of William we assume is the one, then the family moved to London. He died just before William jnr was born. Ah well, another brick wall!!! Just wish they chose some different names for their kids in those days!! lol Thanks for trying, & your suggestions, Joan.

Hi again Joan. It should be possible for somebody to get a look at the original marriage certificate to check father's name - if it was a church wedding, the local record office should have it and if it was a register office wedding, you / your possible rellie would have to order it from the register office, specifying 'photocopy of the original' though it would be worth checking with the register office first whether they do that. But you might be able to get them to look and confirm the details without actually providing a copy (i.e. to save paying for it). But I think it would probably be a good idea to look at the 1841 census for Aylesbury to check whether there was a William in Francis' family then. Or indeed, who William Fleet was with then. (Or if there were two Williams, or two Francises) Can't think of anything else at the moment. Kate.

Francis in 1851 1851 HO107/1721/237 Bourbon Street, Aylesbury FLEET,Francis,M,HD,42,M,Carpenter,BKM,Wingrave FLEET,Mary Ann,M,WI,43,F,Straw Bonnett Maker,BKM,Dorton FLEET,Frederick,U,SO,19,M,Carpenter,BKM,Aylesbury FLEET,Eleanor,U,DA,17,F,Straw Bonnett Maker,BKM,Aylesbury FLEET,Jane,U,DA,13,F,Scholar,BKM,Aylesbury FLEET,Selina,U,DA,11,F,Scholar,BKM,Aylesbury FLEET,Mary Ann,U,DA,9,F,Scholar,BKM,Aylesbury FLEET,Salome,U,DA,7,F,Scholar,BKM,Stoke Mandeville FLEET,Jeremiah,U,SO,4,M,Scholar,BKM,Stoke Mandeville and this is the only candidate for William's death, assuming he didn't die miles away from home Deaths Oct-Dec 1840 Fleet William Aylesbury 6 227

Ok Kate, thanks, you go getsome beauty sleep!! lol!! That's my g.g.g granddad & grandma !! well done for 1871, couldn't find them under Fleet never thought to look under Cal??? What's all that about? Amazing where they can hide isn't it? Come back tomorrow & help, if you can!!! Cheers, Joan

And Francis in 1861... yikes, just noticed the time! Must go! Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Francis Fleet abt 1809 Wingrave, Buckinghamshire, England Head Aylesbury Buckinghamshire Jemima Fleet abt 1847 Stoke Mandeville, Buckinghamshire, England Daughter Aylesbury Buckinghamshire Mary Ann Fleet abt 1808 Dorton, Buckinghamshire, England Wife Aylesbury Buckinghamshire Mary Ann Fleet abt 1842 Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England Daughter Aylesbury Buckinghamshire Salome Fleet abt 1844 Stoke Mandeville, Buckinghamshire, England Daughter Aylesbury Buckinghamshire

And I'm pretty sure the surname for Francis and Mary on this one from 1871 should say 'Fleet' (and Francis doesn't really have a middle initial): Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image Francis F Cal abt 1809 Wingrave, Buckinghamshire, England Head Aylesbury Buckinghamshire Mary Ann Cal abt 1808 Dorton, Buckinghamshire, England Wife Aylesbury Buckinghamshire Jane Hall abt 1862 Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England Granddaughter Aylesbury Buckinghamshire Francis' occupation is given as carpenter.

Hi Kate William was 24 on the marriage cert, married August 1864. Strangely, there could have been another child in the pecking order so to speak, in my g.g.g. granddad Francis (b1808) family!! But on 1837 online I did check & the one she sent off for the cert for is the only one that could fit. There was a William Henry b. 1843 but he died in 1844 (or at least a William Henry did according to Ancestry) He died April 1885 aged 43., according to the death certificate. Could it just be a mistake on the marriage cert? Can you get a copy of the original register to check? Thanks for trying, see what you can come up with. On the census 1871 it says William was born Bucks, but he was living in London by the way. Joan.

Could this be William's father, still alive in 1881, and presumably the Francis Fleet who died in the Jan - Mar quarter of 1884 at Aylesbury aged 75? Name: Francis Fleet Age in 1881: 72 Age months: 0 Estimated birth year: abt 1809 Relationship to head-of-household: Head Household: View other family members Family and neighbors: View neighbors Gender: Male Where born: Wingrove, Buckinghamshire, England Address: No 10 Brook St Civil parish: Aylesbury County/Island: Buckinghamshire Condition as to marriage: Widow Occupation: Carpenter Education: View Image Employment status: View Image Source information: RG11/1473 Registration district: Aylesbury Sub-registration district: Aylesbury ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Folio: 44 Page: 37

Do you already have the will of Francis Fleet, widower of Aylesbury 14 June 1824 from the National Archives Documents Online? Though if I understand you correctly, the Francis Fleet who was William's father died in 1840? But the Documents Online could be some relative? Still, it won't help much with people who were born later. There is also a will of Francis Fleet, carpenter, of St. John the Evangelist Westminster 7 August 1823. Does the marriage certificate give William's age? The age given on the census could be wrong. Also, does he fit in with the children that you know 'your' Francis had? Do the witnesses' names on William's marriage cert fit in with your family? You have probably guessed that I am wondering if there were two different Francis Fleets, one your ancestor and the other one the father of William. (Not counting the two who made the wills!) As for the two confusing birth certificates (for William and Henry), I think the most likely explanation is that your possible rellie has got the wrong birth certificates. Hope you can unravel it! Kate.

Joan - sorry I didn't get back to you before, but GR was unavailable every time I tried to get onto it earlier. Anyway, first a stupid question - have you looked on the GRO indexes (e.g. on 1837 online or on microfiche) for Henry and William's births, or just on FreeBMD? I will see what I can find and get back to you. Kate.

Only problem is, my g.g.g grandfather was still married to my g.g.g. grandmother at the time!! Joan

I have this problem to but know I definately have the right certificates for everyone. On her birth her father is listed as Robert Beckett and this is what is on his marriage to her mother and also on her mother's death certificate one year later. However, when his daughter gets married 20 years later he is down as Robert Pigott. Causing me a little bit of headache to say the least. I also have quite a few children who at birth have no father's listed but by the time they marry that do list a father. One example is Robert Elsey - no father named at birth however, at his marriage he names William Burnham which is who his mother married 6 years after he was born. Regards Sue

Right, here goes........ This is her G. Granddad on 1871 census: Abigail Fleet abt 1844 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Wife St Mary Stratford le Bow London Ellen Fleet abt 1870 Bromley, Middlesex, England Daughter St Mary Stratford le Bow London Louisa Fleet abt 1868 Bow, Middlesex, England Daughter St Mary Stratford le Bow London Phoebe Fleet abt 1867 St Georges East, Middlesex, England Daughter St Mary Stratford le Bow London Willaim Fleet abt 1841 Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England Head St Mary Stratford le Bow London William J Fleet abt 1866 St Georges East, Middlesex, England Son St Mary Stratford le Bow London They spelt his first name wrong, should be William. The only William we can find where the date fits his birth is one in March Q 1841. On that birth cert father is also William (deceased) However, on the marriage cert to Abigail (Saggers) his father is named as Francis Fleet, carpenter (who was my g.g.g. grandfather!) She thinks she found him on 1861 census living with his Mother & brother Henry, born later, however William's father died in 1840!! She now has birth cert for Henry & his father's name was Charles!!!!HELP!!!! :0) Joan

I had a similar problem as my g grandmother had put stepfathers christian name and her fathers surname. Please put it up here. Were intrigued

Hi Kate You can give it a go, might havemore success!! Am I right in thinking some 1861 London census missing, so could be if her g.grandad on the missing bit we're chasing a red herring? lol Do you want to mail me direct, as it is a bit long-winded? Thanks Joan

If you give us some details perhaps we can help to sort it out. Kate.

The marriage certificate could have a step-father's name on it. Does the birth certificate have the right mother's name? Are you sure it is the right birth certificate? You need to go back one step at a time. Kath. x