Genealogy Chat

Merry, I'm not really sure what I mean to be honest. She doesn't appear twice in the registers. However, I have it on good authority that her name was Ellis. The marriage I've found is definitely my grandfathers and grandmothers. It's a possibility that she mariied twice. Who knows! Fun finding out though! I'm going to order the certificate and see what it says. My dad says that the name Owens now rings a vague bell, but he's certain that Ellis comes into it somewhere. Maybe it wasn't her surname. the mystery deepens!! Sheila, Good point. I hadn't thought of that. My grandads middle name is Petherick, because that was his mothers maiden name. I wonder if Ellis is her mother maiden name and she was given it as a middle name? But I like the rhyming idea. I may well try that. Thanks

Ellis could have been HER mothers maiden name - or it could have been ALICE? Someone on the boards once suggested trying to say the names in different accents to see if they could have been misheard/transcribed . It works!

Do you mean her name appears twice in the marriage index....once under each surname?? You may be right and she had two surnames at birth OR............... Here's a quote from 1837online: ''March quarter 1912 to September quarter 1962 -- if female was previously married, index shows maiden name and married name'' ...................she may have been married more than once! I would deffo get the marriage cert before forking out any more money................ If the above isn't quite what you meant, then apologies!! Merry

Big thank you for everyones help. I made a bit of a breakthrough last night. Seems that Mary's surname is also listed as Owens! Ellis was something my dad was fairly certain on, it seems as though her name could be Mary Ellis Owens or a variation there of. Maybe Ellis is an middle name? If so it sounds quite unusual, but who knows. Hopefully now I might be able to get further! I'm now found her marriage to my grandfather, so I have a start!

Saffron Reading through the thread, I would suggest that you take a deep breath before you go any further, just to clear your head (fustration has a way to cloud the way we think and makes us rush and miss things). Then start that branch of your tree again. Work slowly and get copies of the relevent certificates. Start with yourself - cheak you have copies of your birth certificate. Then Check for a copy of your parents marriage certificate and then their births. As others have mentioned Mary may not have been her first name. Both my fathers Grandmothers were never known my their first names. one was Rachel Ellen and known as Ellen and the other was Elizabeth Ann (after her mother and aunt) but known as Nell. My Nell married a boy called Henry Joseph James (all his given names, not surnames) but he was known as Joe. So it did happen. I know how fustrating it is to look for a record that you know should exist. I spent ages looking for my greatgrandmothers birth certificate and I still can't find it and I looked for a couisns birth at Kew and didn't find it, but going through 1837online over the weekend I finally found one and have sent for the certifiate so I hope it's what I want (asked for a cheak so fingers crossed). It still means that my greatgrandmother is missing but I've put it down to fate, so I'll find it when I am ment to and not before.

Saffron, There REALLY is no need to slap yourself. We are trying to help you. So when we make suggestions it's not because we think you are doing things illogically, it's just that we have all found workable solutions to aid locating that awkward relative. Sometimes someone is not found because we are looking in the wrong place or using the wrong name. Don't forget that some of the locally held records are now available online. Perhaps it would be helpful if you posted the full name of your grandfather, perhaps you know where he was born and lived (a county would do). You father is one of several children. Who was born first, and in what year. (Again it doesn't need to be exact). Something like dad had two older siblings and he was born in 1945 is enough to work with. Dad name and those of siblings would be helpful but you decide if you wish to put the names of live rellies on the board. Stick at it, I'm sure we'll crack this........ eventually Pete

Merry, Aha! See? I knew I was missing something obvious!!! He doesn't have a copy. But I know when he was born, so shouldn't be hard to get a copy. Thank you so much, I shall slap myself later. Sometimes you need a fresh brain methinks!

Good point Pete! What about your dad's birth cert?? Have you seen that? It should have her proper name on it too.... merry

Pete, It's a great idea, but I can't find a record of their marriage either. So I can't order a certificate just yet (can I?). I was hoping that by finding her death, I could trace it back. I am now looking fr their marriage instead, so I may come up with something. Thank you. Merry, I thought of that. While I was looking through the records I was looking at anything I thought could be her. I do have a sub to Ancestry, so that will be great when they get it online. Thanks. I'm sure I'll get there eventually. I just wish my dad knew more!

Did you find any that looked partly right?? Maybe right age, wrong place?? Could she have died in a hospital away from home? Anyway....in a few days Ancestry are supposed to be having the whole GRO index on their site!! Depending on what format it takes, maybe you should nudge up your thread again later i the week (if you don't have a sub to Ancestry)?? Merry

Saffron, may I suggest that you consider locating the marriage certificate. This will at least confirm her full maiden name.. Who knows perhaps she was Alice Mary Ellis but known as Mary. If her 'proper name' was used on her death cert you'll never find her searching for Mary. A marriage certificate may help provide an accurate year of birth too. Pete

Merry, Sadly, I've pretty much exhausted that option and spent that money! (on the last two years now).But thank you. The only thing I can think of is that I missed it or somehow, it simply wasn't registered. But I doubt that is the case. (not being registered I mean) Many thanks for everybody's suggestions.

Saffron, You haven't actually said whether you have checked all the GRO indexes for the time frame you mention. There really isn't a shortcut without more info from your family. You can search for free at some large libraries and also County Record Offices, but it takes a long time to search 29 years that way. Otherwise it's a case of trawling the GRO indexes online via 1837online or Family Relatives. The search would cost you around £12. Apologies if you have already done this. Merry

What rude response? Merry

hi i have also not been able to trace a death early 1900 and had same rude response as your first one geuss registras were not perfect good look on your search if i find out any more i will let you no

Saffron I'd try to pin your dad down more on when she died, was he at school or had he left by that time, etc. Was your dad the eldest of their children, if not was she alive when siblings got married? That'll help to narrow the search down a bit. There have been several postings about Ancestry getting the GRO indexes this week and when they do I'll give you a hand trying to find her if you want. Your best bet would be start with 1950 and work towards 1979 as your dad remembers himself being young when she died. Good luck. Rachel

I believe they pretty much stayed in the Halifax area. My grandad certainly lived in Brighouse when I visited. I'm sure h'd been there a long time.

Whereabouts in Yorkshire did they live? Some fairly recent BMD for the Teesside area are on-line (free) http://www.teesvalley-indexes(.)co.uk/search.php (looks like Yorks BMD doesn't have anything recent)

Nell, Seriously, you'd be surprised how many years worth of deaths myself and a friend have searched through!! My eyes are very sore!!! My grandad died when I was 10 (in 1989). He's buried in Kent. I'm almost certain that she isn't buried with him. At least my dad is pretty sure. I'm more than happy to continue trawling throug the records page by page. I just wondered if anyone had any suggestions of something I may have missed. Thanks:)

Saffron You are looking for the death of your paternal grandmother Mary Waller (Nee Ellis). She must have died after 1950 when her youngest son was born, and before you were born in 1979. That's a period of 29 years. Unless you have checked every single quarter of every single one of those years, you can't say you can't find the record, just that you haven't looked. After 1910 there's nothing on Freebmd so it won't be there. Do you know when your grandfather died? Or where they were buried? nell