Genealogy Chat

I emailed the City of Westminster Archives Dept. about 33 Ebury Street a few days ago. Below is their reply which may be useful to other GR users who were also talking about Ebury Street. 'You do not say when they were there so I cannot tell you exactly where the property was because Ebury Street was renumbered in 1867 and number 33 now is not the same as it was before 1867. However, I can outline the types of records we have here which you could use to research their occupation of this property if you visit us at the end of the month when you come up to London. We hold Ordnance Survey maps which show street numbering after 1951, but we have earlier editions from 1867-74, 1894-96 and 1906-1919 which show the outlines of the houses. Kelly's Post Office Directories which we hold from 1842 onwards are very useful because they list most houses in the street and give the position of intersecting streets, so you can look at these along with the OS maps to work out which house number 33 was. We also hold census returns for every tenth year from 1841 to 1901 (except 1861 where the Belgravia census returns were destroyed) and these give details of names, ages, occupations and birthplaces of all the inhabitants. We have electoral registers from 1906 onwards showing the names of people registered to vote arranged by address. We also hold rate books listing the ratepayers by address. So you see we have a lot of information which can help you to trace exactly where the house was and to see who lived there. If you want to take your research any further, you might like to see the archives of the Grosvenor Estate who are the ground landlords. These records includes leases, minute books, plans and photographs. You need to obtain a letter of permission from the estate office by e-mailing nigel hughes or miles dunnet. Our opening hours are given on our web-site (see link below, noting that we are closed on Mondays). www.westminster.gov.uk/archives Hope this info is useful to other people with ancestors that lived in Ebury Street. Note the street was renumbered in 1867 & I could not get the email addresses above to display properly, so if you want the addresses send me a direct message. Claire

Hi Mary. I used this site or one similar a couple of years ago. Thank you for the reminder -- I've taken a peek tonight and will continue again tomorrow. Perhaps I may find something. Thank you. :)

Lisa, have you tried looking for the address in trade directories? A couple of my ancestors were butchers, and they were listed in directories. See if you can find a directory for the period here: http://www.historicaldirectories.org

Hi Claire. Unfortunately, I don’t have any idea where on Ebury they lived! I was surprised to see that they lived in the same county(!), as I only have records of Susannah’s family in Sussex and Surrey. According to the marriage certificate, they both lived on Ebury Street -- I’m wondering if they lived in the same residence! (tsk, tsk.) Claire, oddly enough, several of my (unrelated) ancestors lived/worked within blocks of each other in Toronto, Canada during the 1870‘s. I was so excited to get their addresses, only to do a google search and discover the buildings had been torn down and high-rises stood in their place! I would love a photo and will email you. Have a wonderful time in London, eh? PS I’ve not seen the map link -- thank you! Helen, your lift story brought back memories! I remember my aunt used to have a “rubbish chute” in her apartment and my brother and I used to argue about who would get to toss out her garbage just so we could “play“ with the chute! Thank you for your information -- people’s memories help make life in England more understandable, even if the memories aren’t from the same era. It helps bridge the gap of far away places. Thank you. Sharon, I will be sure to check out the link -- thank you! Also, after reading all of the comments, I have a feeling I will be trying to find out more about Pimlico -- sounds like a very interesting place! Shelli - thank you, I’ll answer later tonight.

Lisa have pm'd you Shelli

Parts of Pimlico were rough and some were nice just as much as it is today. ( I was born there and still walk down the streets lots for my work). Millbank prision ( where they used to keep people before transporting them to Australia) is less than 5 mins walk away and now the site of the Tate Britian. I was nattering to a couple of people that work in Westminster Archives last week and they are really enthusiastic about their work and are well worth getting in touch with for information. ( Ifound alot of old letters that were dumped by someone and they really want to add them to their archives. This has a lot more information http://www.westminster.gov.uk/archives/

http://booth.lse.ac.uk/static/a/4.html Have you tried looking at Charles Booth's Poor Maps of London on the above link? 'The Maps Descriptive of London Poverty are perhaps the most distinctive product of Charles Booth's Inquiry into Life and Labour in London (1886-1903). An early example of social cartography, each street is coloured to indicate the income and social class of its inhabitants.' This might be of interest to you if you've not seen it before during your late night googling sessions! Claire

Hi, I have an aunt who lives in Pimlico. We went to visit when I was a teenager (aeons ago) and she lived in a council tower-block virtually on the banks of the Thames. As kids from farms we were fascinated by the lift and the proximity of neighbours and spent the day going up and down in the lifts!!! As she was part of the family scandal she was interesting to me and I had a great day and didn't get attacked or mugged. Having said that it was obviously a poor area and I couldn't tell you if it has changed; a lot of inner London is very much up-market these days!

Hi, My birth grandparents lived at 33 Ebury Street! The building apparently does not stand now but a tree my mum's uncle planted may still be outside where the property stood. We are going up to London to meet my mum's full sister for the first time (mum is 71 years old) on 27th May. We are hoping to get to Ebury Street and take a photo or two. What was your house number that you were looking for? Do you know which buildings were either side of it? In the 1940's the building was once a posh Belgravia house but was taken over by the council and given over to housing poor people. My birth grandparents were on the 4th floor. The building was eventually condemed and knocked down. The houses were taken over by the local council for several years, so the house owners must have been pretty cheesed off with the council but I hope they got compensated well for their loss. I can't promise to get a photo as it all depends on timings as to how we go on the day but if anyone wants a digital photo of Ebury Street, as it is now, please PM me. Claire

Ness, is there a chance there might be an old drawing somewhere? If I find anything, I'll let you know. (I google well into the night, trying every combination I can think of!) Must run....

Hi Nell and Colin. Nell, I'll definitely look into that! Thank you. Colin, this is my brickwall ancestor. He wasn't in London in 1851 and was in Canada by 1858. I just received his marriage certificate and it just states 'Ebury Street'. But, at least I found out where (which country) he was married -- been wondering that for years! Have to start work now. Thank you Nell and Colin and everyone else for your help.

Trouble is, Ebury Buildings as such don't seem to exist anymore.....

Hello Lisa............you mention someone lucky to have an address................does this mean that you do not have census details for relevant years....or just that the census does not show a number................if you don't have census details there are lots here who would look them up for you

You only need to go a few streets in London to be in a different area. Some bits of Pimlico were probably better than others. You could check on the census and see what kinds of occupations people did, how many people lived in a household, etc. nell

Oh Ness, you're lucky to have an address! The more I find out about him, the more I want to know! Have you ever visited the area? I would think it would be exciting/sobering to walk the streets they might have walked. Thank you for replying, Ness. :)

Yes, I've wondered the same thing. In 1881 my great grandfather lived at Block 1 17 Ebury Buildings, Belgravia (he always gives his place of birth as Pimlico); sounds grand...but I have a feeling it wasn't! Not then, anyway.

Hi Peter. It sounds like a lot of neighbourhoods then -- where there are different incomes (keeping in mind much of it was poor). I'm wondering because although he was 'just' a butcher, he and his wife were able to leave England, settle in Canada and own his own shops within a few years of arriving in Canada (in 1858). Was just trying to imagine what his life was like back then. Thank you for your help, Peter.

Hi Colin. It's a bit confusing, since a couple of sites say one thing about it in the mid-1850's, and other sites say something totally different! When I mentioned the area to my mum, she remembered the name Pimlico -- perhaps she saw the firm, eh? :) Thank you for your help.

Hi Lisa, In the nineteenth century much of Pimlico was fairly poor but in the course of the twentieth century parts have been well and truly gentrified as it is so close to Belgravia, Westminster and Mayfair.

No idea of London or Pimlico and others may be able to advise better.... but I think I remember an Ealing comedy film Passport to Pimlico............but then it may not have been filmed there Also...what it is like now is no indication of what it was like in 1857.................my relatives lived in Moss Side Manchester and were wealthy.........but that was in the 1880s