Genealogy Chat

Hi Helen I understand where you're coming from in wanting to trace your father's birth mother - even if it's just to find a name. My Mum was adopted in 1948 - it's something we've always known I don't even remember when she told us. I never really asked her about it thinking she'd tell me about it when she was ready to do so but I've always been curious in a 'where did I come from' way. A few months ago when I started looking at my family tree she told me all she had found out. She'd managed to get her birth certificate about 20 years ago so knew her birth mother's name and her birth name - there was no father listed. She also searched some birth, marriage records etc to try to find out more. Then she did nothing up till a few months ago as work, life, and us kids got in the way! So we took it from there - did more searching and ended up finding a cousin registered on this site! We got in contact and after a few emails back and forth we know that she is alive and that my Mum has a half-sister. We have her address but we don't really know what to do now. Personally I feel that it would be nice for her to know that Mum is happy and well and about her family etc. Of course I don't know the circumstances - all I know is she had a baby 4 years before Mum who she didn't have adopted. The cousin has advised us to write to her half-sister (although she may not know about Mum) rather than to her birth mother as she would be about 78 now. We don't know if this is the 'right' thing to do in case she doesn't know. But we want to get in contact and don't know how else to go about it. Good luck with your search Helen.

Helen I am NOT against adoptees trying to trace their roots - my posting started as genuine AMAZEMENT that the Law does not appear to be what I thought it was. That was the point I was making. You seem to have taken all my remarks as being a personal attack on you, I can assure you they were not meant to be, they were not meant to be an attack on anyone! Embittered? No, not at all, but I am a lot older than you and have seen many things and know that what starts with the best of intentions can often end in disaster. I was merely expressing my opinions - you do not have to agree with them, but as you invited people's opinions by posting this thread, I wonder why you are so hostile to those who do not agree with you on every point. Whatever, I do truly wish you a happy and successful reunion, if that is what you want, or at least whatever knowledge you can glean from the Adoptive File. Olde Crone

Helen - I have followed your thread for a while. May I ask that you consider things from the viewpoint of the paternal grandmother (ie the position I am in, as someone in their mid fifties). I too placed a child for adoption (1967). The reasons for this were due to the circumstances which related to the conception of the child. Those circumstances are something which I can NEVER erase from my mind. The full details of the circumstances were put in the details which will now be on the child's adoption file papers, therefore the child will know about them should they ever seek more details about me (the birth mother). They may not like what they read, but they will know the unpalatable truth. However, when they were placed for adoption, I was told that was it and they would never be able to contact me. OK the law altered in 1975 & it meant they would get access to the adoption file. Ever since then I have had it in the back of my mind that they would pop up from nowhere and bring all my fears & nightmares about things & the problmes to the front again. There is absolutely no way that I would ever feel able to meet the child - or their grandchildren. I firmly slammed the lid of pandora's box shut when I placed the child for adoption and that is how it will stay. I could chose to have the right to know about grandchildren, but I would be absolutely furious if they (or anyone else on their behalf) attempted to force or persuade me to do this. There are some things which really should be left well alone.

helen yr response is heartfelt. good luck with your search. my thought and prayers are with you.

Hi Helen Can't sleep tonight so having a browse back, and remembered your thread. I'm pleased to see that you've made a start and that you are handling the situation sensitively, ie going through the recognised and advised channels. I did wonder how things were going but hadn't got round to checking your thread. Keep positive and, like I said before, just prepared for anything. Love Mandy :) x

Oh and at the rest of seeming pedantic, my name is Helen not Margaret. :)

'I have no other children & it is so hard to be a Granny & not to see or hear how they are all doing. maybe one day!'......... This was posted on the afore mentioned 'jess thread' and pretty much sums up one of the reasons I wish to find my paternal grandmother. Old Crone, You seem to have a very embittered, negative and bleak attitude towards my search. I did wonder if you have any direct experience on the subject apart from the unfortunate incidents you previously mentioned? Your post is full of contradictions..... you talk about how 'young people want to barge in unwanted into their birth mothers lives' and yet you are refering to pre1975 adoptions. The incident you mention, you say the lady was adopted 40 YEARS previously. How do you define young? I feel that there is little point in trying to reply to your posts as you clearly have no understanding of the viewpoint I take. This whole thing started when I began my family tree, after having my own children, and a huge part was missing. I just want to be able to have some answers if and when they time comes for the girls to take an interest and ask questions. I hardly see this as 'barging in unwanted'. I don't know if you have ever given birth to a child, but I can assure you it must be the most difficult thing to give that little life away. If circumstances dictated that it was neccessary, I know that I personally would think about nothing else for the rest of my life. I think she has the right (if she wishes, after all it's completely in her hands, if she's ever found) to know about the son she had and the fact that she has 3 granddaughters and 2 great granddaughters. Enough said, I can see that we shall have to agree to disagree!

Helen You say that 'surely no-one would be able to trace anyone' I am merely stating what the Law promised pre 1975 - full and final severance and CERTAINLY not the slightest possibility of anyone being able to trace anyone.It was never never intended that they should, that was the whole point of legal Adoption - leave behind the stigma of illegitimacy for the child and a clean slate for the mother. Things have changed now in Society and I certainly dont have a problem in principle with adoptees trying to trace their roots. But, if you have ever looked at some of the postings on these Boards it is evident that some people (usually young, I find) want to barge into someone else's life without any thought to the consequences, either to themselves or to the Birth Mother/Birth family. My friend was contacted by the daughter she gave up for adoption some 40 years ago. Her daughter had found her privately, without going through the normal channels. My friend was absolutely thrilled to bits, the whole Adoption had been a terrible trauma. Everything went well for a year or so, and then suddenly, the Adoptive parents demanded that the girl choose - them or Birth Mother. Naturally, the girl chose her adoptive parents and my friend is still in bits two years later. I am not saying the girl shouldnt have done it, I am saying that she simply had not thought things through and hurt a lot of people in the process. Another acquaintance has an adopted daughter who also barged uninvited into her birth mother's life, literally turning up on her doorstep. She has also been devastated to find she was the product of incestuous rape. If you havent done so already, please read Jess's excellent Adoption thread (but you'll need a flask and some sandwiches, its very long!) Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread, should be the watchword of those who search for their roots. OC

Old Crone: I asume from your response that you are of the opinion that adoptees shouldn't be able to trace their birth mothers? Well it's the same situation but one generation removed, after all my father can't exactly trace her himself, can he? You state that adoption pre 1975 were supposed to mean complete severance of mother and child..... then surely no-one would be able to trace anyone?! If you re-read my message, you will notice that it wasn't a social worker, but an external association who specialise in prior adoptions. One would assume that as the are professionals in this field, they would be tactful if they aproach her. It is of course very possible that they won't even be able to trace her!

Margaret I must admit I am slightly surprised at the response you got from the Social Services! Adoptions which took place before 1975 were 'full and final' - that is, a complete and ETERNAL severance of the child from its birth mother and other birth relatives. Mothers were promised absolute and unending secrecy and with this in mind, it is quite possible that many Birth Mothers never told a subsequent husband that they had previously had a child. I presume the Social Worker will approach your Birth GM with tact and diplomacy - but I am still very surprised that she is going to do it at all, particularly as you have not expressed a wish to meet her yet. But perhaps the law is different in Scotland? As to the UNADOPTION question, no, I dont understand this either - surely it must be 'merely' a re-adoption? I remember being horrified to the bottom of my soul when an acquaintance, who had adopted a little girl, casually remarked that they had handed her back, as they had decided they would rather have a boy!!!! And they got one, too. This was in the 1970s and I really have to wonder about the Social Workers who allowed this to happen. Good luck and may you all find what you are looking for. Olde Crone

Ok, the story so far.... just in case it is of help to anyone else. I contacted the social work dept. who in turn passed me on to the Scottish Adoption Association in Edinburgh. The girl was very nice on the phone and took down what little detail I did have. I obviously voiced my concerned about whether I would be able to trace since the adoptee is deceased. Her answer was: If they were able to trace my birth grandmother, they would contact her to ask if she would be interested first and then get back in touch with me. Although this makes since, it is a bit of a blow as I'm not even that sure I want to meet her, just find out a bit more about her first. Anyway, I was warned that trying to trace adoption files take a long time. They hold the records of adoptions carried out by themselves, the Church of Scotland and the Episcopal Church. http://www.scottishadoption.org Obviously they have to do a bit of digging and of course there's always the possibilty that Dad's Mum was Catholic or the adoption was done outwith Edinburgh. I have decided that I might have a little word with my adopted grandfather, if I can find an appropriate time. Will keep you posted!

Margaret, a re-adoption raises interesting issues. Obviously this was many years ago, and things may have changed - the same thing happened to my half-bro, also many years ago. If it is - or was - possible to un-adopt a child, how is it that if a child wants to find its birth parents (when adult) thereby possibly wanting to have itself 'unadopted' that this is not allowed? This is obviously a sort of rhetorical question as it is unlikely that you would know the answer, and neither do I, but there are so many people on here with so many experiences, that someone may know. Please no-one think that anyone who wants to find their birth-parents does so because they want to be 'unadopted' , this is not what I mean at all. It just seems odd that if adoption was meant to be 'for life', and that an adopted child was supposed to be exactly the same as a birth child even to inheritance etc, how come 'parents' could change their minds after a full adoption had taken place. After all, an adoption is actually a far more positive decision to have a child, than often getting pregnant is. You do not need the Law to get pregnant - although some people would not 'pass the exam'. Margaret you must not think that you are a 'reject' sadly as we all know there are people who cannot cope with their children, and in your case they would most likely have not been any better at coping with their own birth child - I wonder if they would have given it for adoption had they had one born to them. Eileen

Hi Helen Hope this isnt too late. My dad was also adopted but at age 6 in 1937. I went down to London and searched through the records myself (in 1999 as my local records office wouldnt give me details back then because of data protection act) Most towns now have a archive center (Nottingham does) where all birth deaths marriages and adoptions are available to view free of charge on Fiche files. (although it wont be the actual certificate just the entry you can get on here etc) Please feel free to email me [email protected] and I will be able to go into more detail into how to trace your paternal grandparents (its hard work but worth it lol) Angie

AWWW Hazel............I just had to reply to your message. How lovely, Why can't everyone think like that? Bless you Regards ,Ann xx

Hi Helen, I wish you success with whatever decision you decide to make about contact. I have been extremely lucky,My Mother was Adopted as a tiny baby in 1921. Last year I found her Sister and she was so pleased that I had contacted her,I only got to know her for 8 months as she died in March this year, but it was so worth it. My Aunt stayed with her Mother and my Mother went to a lovely Lady my other Grandma who could not have children of her own. My Mother's birth family suffered the effects of the 1st World War and because of that the family were split up. Its not always the case of somone just giving up a child for the hell of it, its often caused by very sad circumstances. I also know very well what you mean about finding where you come from it is important. My Family have been so supportive of my quest and I have some new rellies who have excepted me without question I wish you sincere Good Luck Ellen

hi all, i've just being reading some of your stories, and i'd just like to say ,my sister adopted a little girl nearly 40 yrs ago now and do you know since the day my sister brought her home she was my sisters daughter and my niece we've never thought of her as being adopted she's grown into a lovely woman married with children of her own. i surpose what i'm trying to say is that we dont ever think of her as [adopted daughter or niece ] hazel.

Hi Helen As your in Scotland and the adoption laws differ to England and Wales you should check out the website www.birthlink.org.uk I hear they are wonderful and they will help you if they are allowed to. Good luck with your search :-) Cheers Gerry

Like Helen I would like to thank everyone for the messages + support. It has really helped me. Eileen, I know what you mean about peoples attitude towards adoption. I have a friend (who doesn't know about my adoption)whose husband has an adopted sister. She often says 'of course SHE is not really one of the family because she was adopted' ! Sometimes I feel like giving her a piece of my mind ...........but it just shows how some people think! Luckily ALL my adopted family treated me NO different to any of my cousins:) I was born in the 1940's too Eileen, but it goes to show that even nowadays some folks have strange views on adoption. Good luck with your search Helen + thanks to you for letting me *butt in * :) Regards Ann.

WOW! Thankyou all so much. What a fantastic response. You have all been very helpful, supportive and positive. I intend to contact the social work dept on Tuesday and see what happens. Having had several private messages, I realise that I haven't actually mentioned in the thread that i'm in Edinburgh. And a couple of people have told me that this could make a big difference with respect to how records are dealt with. To be honest, it wasn't something I had even considered. If anyone has a particular experience in this regard I would appreciate your thoughts! Thankyou all again for your kind wishes and I will let you all know how I get on, if any progress is made! :-)

helen ,, have you tried after adoption , they are very good and very easy to talk to and are really understanding on the whole cirlcle of adoption, you have to do what you and you alone feels right for you and dont let anyone try and put you off in any way and when you find out the infomation you wanted you can then decided what if and when to tell your children, it is not an easy road to go down you will most probly hit so many brick walls along the way but if your like me you,ll just keep knocking them down and carry on, i,m sure you will get there in the end,, i wish you loads of luck in your search, if i can be of any help please pm me , i have experience in searching for people both adopted and lost reletives and have had some great results latley,, take care x