Genealogy Chat

Hi guys, Does anyone know of any apprenticeship records that still exist? I have an Edward Clayton, aged 12, living in Wolverhampton in 1841 and 'ap' is down as his employment. I presume this means apprentice. The head of the family he was living with was David Aston and he was a Coal Miner. I know that Edward was a Coal/Ironstone Miner from the age 22 onwards. Can anyone help? Do any records exist?? Cheers xx

The only apprenticeship records I have seen have always been held by the apprentice. As your ancestor was a miner try one or more of the mining unions Google coal miner union and specify UK. You will find a fair old list of unions. One of which proably covers the geographic area of your interest. Clive

Could you give details of who he is living with as I immediately found a 14 year old working as a miner and the status nephew - Im assuming that cant be him. 12 seems young to be an apprentice - normally it would qualify the type of apprenticeship . 1851: Edward Clayton Age: 14 Estimated birth year: abt 1837 Relation: Nephew Gender: Male Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Wolverhampton Ecclesiastical parish: St John County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Wolverhampton Sub-registration district: Wolverhampton Western ED, institution, or vessel: 1n Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 29 Household Members: Name Age Edward Clayton 14 Hannah Clayton 39 James Clayton 36 James Clayton 2 Mary Clayton 14 William Clayton 20 Do you mean a different census year? Or am I missing something please?

Hi Clive, I can't seem to find much on google but I'll keep looking. Cheers xx

Opps, you're right Heather! I meant 1841 - SORRY!

Strange, wonder who the 4 year old Jane Jones is with him? Did you see he was born in Scotland, Ireland or foreign parts?

Jane Jones I presume was just another lodger like Edward. Edward was born in Wellington Shropshire, but there's a story that he ran away from home sooo who knows. The 'ap' does stand for apprentice, doesn't it?

Thanks for that! I'll give it a go! xx

Wonder if he was a pauper's apprentice? They were apprenticed from age 7. If so, there might be something in the poor law records for the area. (Have to admit, I didn't know you needed to do an apprenticeship to be a coal miner, lol) OC

No O.C. thats what I couldnt make out and if he were born in Shropshire why does he get a tick in the Scotland, Ireland box? Wellington is on the Welsh border but all the same, not foreign parts I wouldnt think - LOL

That's a thought, being as he was illegit. As he was born in Wellignton Shropshire I contacted them about their Poor Law records but they had nothing. Maybe Wolverhampton will? xx

Maybe the running away story is true and he lied to cover up where he was originally from. On the 1851 census he's down as being from the Shropshire, Dawley area but, of course, he was by that time 22 years old. xx

Just had another squint - not sure if it is ap now - not usual to have ap for apprentice - usually appr or the full word followed by the trade. Also, when you say he is a lodger - you cant actually know that as no relationship is given - Id be looking closely at the wife of the family who also gets a tick in the foreign parts box! (Oh, and shes called Jane!) Assuming they have rounded down to 25 and the couple are 29 I guess Joseph Aston aged 11 could be theirs.

Well, ummm, point taken but if it's not 'ap' what could it be? It's not 'do'. Looking again, Joseph Aston must be the younger brother of David Aston because of their ages. So if Jane 'Aston' is the wife, maybe Jane Jones is her illegit daughter. Still not sure if Edward was any relation as his mother was Ann Clayton (I don't have any more info on her!! Argh!) and it seems he was illegit too.

Really, REALLY, wild guess - ap couldn't be short for adopted, could it? OC

I have no idea! Jeez, the plot thickens, eh?

Hi guys, Well it turns out that 'ap' does actually stand for apprentice on the 1841 census. At least I managed to clear that one up! xx

Well done. As I said Joseph could be the couples son as if their ages have been rounded down - they could be 29 so 18 when Joe was born??? Have you tried googling for the name and workhouses. I did this for one of mine in the area he was living/born and found a record concerning him being apprenticed to a mattress maker! Have a go - just in case something does come up for him, in Wellington or Wolverhampton. Does that other Clayton family living near him - as above - shed any light I wonder? Yes a real mystery. Does his marriage cert not help?

I am doubful about apprenticeships being registered as quoted above. In places like York (snooty) it was a requirement if you wanted later to be a freeman - and to trade within the city limits without having to make a payment. (The guilds like nice dinners and who better to pay for them than some jumped up tradesman?) My ancestors were in Ainsty (sort of covered York too but also covered neighbouring parishes) and they did not register their apprenticeships in York. Clive

Clive I have seen countless recordings of Pauper Apprenticeships, in Workhouse and Poorhouse records. Of course, the pauper apprenticeship was really another name for sweated labour. These 'apprenticeships' went on for 14 years, instead of the customary seven years, and a pauper apprentice could not gain his indentures before the age of 25, as opposed to the age of 21 for an 'ordinary' apprentice. OC