Genealogy Chat

Have just made tentative links into a Scottish line. Only one census record for one likely Gt.Gt.Gt. Grandparent which states where born as Tromgery Park, Scotland. I've googled this but it's not come up so guessing that as this was an English census the recorder has spelt this incorrectly. Can someone please tell me what the correct name is likely to be? Thanks.

Can you post the census details that you have found Maureen

1871 is this the entry Name: James Mathieson Age: 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1836 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Agnes Gender: Male Where born: Tromgery Park, Scotland Civil parish: Kingston On Thames Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter Town: Kingston County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Kingston Sub-registration district: Kingston ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 85 Household Members: Name Age Catherine Johnson 25 Agnes Mathieson 29 Meingaff, Scotland David Mathieson 9 Galway, Ireland Elizabeth Mathieson 2 Middlesex James Mathieson 35 Jane Mathieson 11 Glenluce, Scotland

Yes, that' the family, possibly my family but not 100% sure. Actually see what you think: I have bc of gt grandmother Agnes (key name that helps link the ancestors) that states her mother is Elizabeth Mathieson. On the 1901 census Elizabeth (nee Mathieson) is b1868 Southall Mddx. Can't find a marriage for Elizabeth Mathieson & 'husband' Frank Steptoe so can't get Elizabeth's father's name from that. However, it seems to me that the name Agnes isn't that common in the London area so latched on to this family. Also a younger sister is called Christina and when I looked for more possible children of Elizabeth & Frank I found a death of a Christina Steptoe. So the family names seem to link in. On the 1891 census Elizabeth Mathison (transcribed as Elizabeth Holley, thanks Ancestry) is living with her mother Agnes and on this census Elizabeth's birth place is Southall. Felt it was a Eureka moment. What do you think?

p.s. getting back to Scottish names I think Meingaff is probably Minnigaff but not knowing Scotland at all I am clueless as to how to check Tromgery Park but expect someone more familiar with Scotland would be able to put 2 and 2 together.

Hey :) This may help a little JANE MATHISON Birth: 11 MAY 1858 Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright, Scotland Father: JAMES MATHISON Mother: AGNES MCGUFFIE And this one JANE MATHISON Birth: 05 JUN 1860 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland Father: JAMES MATHISON Mother: AGNES MCGUFFIE I have no idea about the Park one...will do a little digging Mhairi

Jane and Agnes in the 1861 but no James :( Name: Jane Mathewson Age: 10 Mo Estimated birth year: abt 1860 Relationship: Grandaughter (Granddaughter) Mother's name: Agnes Gender: Female Where born: Glenluce, Wigtownshire Registration Number: 876 Registration district: Minnigaff Civil parish: Minnigaff County: Kirkcudbrightshire Address: Daltammie Farm ED: 3 Page: 11 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 57 Line: 10 Roll: CSSCT1861_147 Household Members: Name Age Agnes Mathewson 21 Jane Mathewson 10 Mo Anthony McGuffie 16 Christina McGuffie 12 Jean McGuffie 47 Grace Wallace 94 Will take a look for him to see what it says for birth place Mhairi

Cheryl Jane Mathieson born in Glenluce - looks like she was the second child of that name born to James Mathieson and Agnes McGuffie. James Mathieson and Agnes McGuffie married 21st Jan 1859 in Minnigaff. If you have a look at Scotlandspeople you will find out if this is the right family - watch the spelling though. Better to use the wild card like so - math*son - that should show the variations. 1. JANE MATHISON - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 11 MAY 1858 Minnigaff, Kirkcudbright, Scotland 2. JANE MATHISON - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 05 JUN 1860 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland

Lol Mhairi! Hadn't realised you were on! Great minds think alike! Found Agnes on the 1901 with a grandson - any use Cheryl? Your Elizabeth didn't get married in Scotland to a Steptoe; in fact no male Steptoe marriages at all in Scotland! Mhairi - looks like the same family even though Agnes hasn't used her married name.

1881 could do with a second opinion on the surname of Elizabeth Name: Christina Lucas Age: 30 Estimated birth year: abt 1851 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Allan Gender: Female Where born: Scotland Civil parish: Mortlake County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street address: 5 Manor Villas Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Draper & Outfitter Wife Registration district: Richmond Sub-registration district: Mortlake ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Anthony Lode 11 Agnes Lucas 1 Allan Lucas 35 Allen C.Campbell Lucas 8 Christina Lucas 30 Christina M. Lucas 4 Jane E. Lucas 6 John A. Lucas 10 Elizabeth Matherg 12 niece, born Southall Maureen

Wow, thanks everyone. I couldn't find Jane Mathison's birth and didn't know about using * in names that are easily misspelt. I have the family on English 1871/81/91 and 1901 censuses. Elizabeth is still living with her mother Agnes in 1891 in Richmond, Surrey. Elizabeth had her daughter Agnes Mary Steptoe in 1893 in Lambeth, Surrey so I have been searching for a marriage between Elizabeth Mathison and Frank Steptoe around that time in that area but I can't find a marriage at any time, anywhere. Can't imagine why they wouldn't marry. As for the 1861 census and James not being on it, the next child born after Jane was born in Ireland so perhaps James was already there.

Let us know how you get on, Cheryl. He may have been a student in 1861 but would still expect him to show on a census. Hopefully Jane's birth cert will show James's occupation - and the marriage date to confirm what we found on Scotsorigins. The Scottish certs are usually very good - however the certs between 1856 and 1860 have less detail on them. That said - if you look for the death cert of the first Jane it should show where she was buried (this only appears on the 1856-60 certs). From that - if you want - you may get details from the Local Authority concerned about those interred in the lair.

Thanks Maureen for the Lucas family. You've obviously been doing this a darn sight longer than me - lol Intriguing family because wife Christina dies 1883 then children die 1895, 1896 x2 & 1897. I can only imagine it was something like TB that carried them off one by one. I can't work out the nephew listed with family 1881. He is living with the Mathisons in 1891 as Anthony Lowe but can't work out where he fits in within the family. These little anomolies are great though because the extra information starts to tie everyone together i.e. Christina's death shows that McGuffie was her middle name. The 12 yr old Elizabeth is 99.9% certain Mathison as she is missing from her mother's home on that census. Any ideas appreciated

Cheryl, if you go on to Scotlandspeople you can get the marriage cert for James and Agnes - that will show you the parent's details for both of them; whether said parents were alive or deceased and all the occupations. From the parent's info - if they died after 1855 then you can get their death certs as well from SP thereby giving you another 4 sets of parental details. Remember, you can download the cert immediately from SP - just click 'view' and it costs 5 credits (about £1). If you click 'order' then it will cost £10 but they do send you a typed copy! I prefer to use 'direct download' or 'activex' rather than java as a viewer - it gives better results. If you're not confident using SP get in touch with either Mhairi or I and we'll help you - or better still, join us on http://scotfamtreedot11dotforumerdotcom - we have lots of tips on using SP as well as a host of info on Scotland.

Births Mar 1870 (>99%) LOVE Anthony Kingston 2a 321 The nephew on 1881 and 1891 census is proving difficult to find in 1871. Not sure the name is Lode on the 1881 entry. So Love is the nearest match for a birth I can find. Maureen

There is an Agnes Mathison age 80 buried 29/04/1916 in Richmond cemetery. In the same grave is a Harry Roger Mathieson buried 20/04/1911 age31. OC&G

Hi Birth Cert for Elizabeth would clarify. There is an Elizabeth Mathison born Oct-Nov-Dec 1868 - Uxbridge area - Volume 3a page 36. Have you sent off for this? Alison

The puzzle is slowly coming together but I wouldn't have been able to do this without your help. My lateral thinking is improving all the time :) I found Anthony Lode on a later census living with his grandmother Agnes only his name was Lowe that time. I have found Anthony Love on 1871 and Bingo - his dad's Mother in Law is Jane McGuffie from Minnigaff. No daughter though but I am getting used to the idea that this family were particularly unfortunate in the health stakes. I've not come across another line with so many young adult deaths. 'There is an Agnes Mathison age 80 buried 29/04/1916 in Richmond cemetery. In the same grave is a Harry Roger Mathieson buried 20/04/1911 age31.' How do you find details like these? Harry matches the Henry Mathison who was another grandson living with Agnes 1891. Fantastic stuff. Thanks so much.

Cheated, Richmond have an online burial search.

There are free on-line census transcriptions for WIG (plus many other counties) in 1841 at: http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl and for DFS/KKD/WIG at: http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/historicalindexes/census.aspx The FreeCEN search is more flexible, allowing wildcards and search on more fields. However, we probably need a KKD family: specifically, with an Agnes McGuffie a=11 in 1851. What we do find in Minnigaff are two 12 y olds: Agnes Guffie (in household 6/81) and an Agnes McGuffog (7/65). To view the first household, in the 'advanced search screen', enter just 'Minnigaff' and '6/81'. We find the household of John Guffie (occ=Carter) (42), his wife Jane(38), and his 7 kids: James(16), Elizabeth(15), Agnes(12), David(10), Anthony(7), Margaret(7), Christiana(3). All were born in Minnigaff and they're living in Blackcraig Village. (Blackcraig Village is just north of the A75, about 4km east of Newton Stewart / Minnigaff, and 1 km SW of Daltamie House.) Malcolm