Genealogy Chat

A complicated story that I'd love some help with. Please see below. Many thanks Maria

I’ve been trying to track down my ggg grandfather William GOATER for some time now and I have had a lot of help from people on GR. To cut a long story short he was born c.1820, joined the army in Hereford in 1844, married in Ireland in 1846 and died in the Crimea in 1854/55. I’ve tried to find out where he was born but can’t find any army info on his origins etc. GOATER is a fairly common surname in Hampshire but I am struggling to make connections. (My Goaters ended up in Lancashire after William’s wife re-married to a fellow soldier). So I decided to try another tack……William’s son Henry KINGSTON GOATER died at 1 Aden Villas, Tongham, Surrey in July 1920 and the witness on the death cert was his cousin Kate BREWER. I wondered if finding out more about her relationship to Henry might give me a connection to William. I contacted the Surrey History Centre and they checked the electoral roll for 1920 (£12 later!!) but no Brewers at this exact address. The most similar address they could find was in Ash Vale and the people who lived there were called WEST, Gordon Hope and James. Note sure what to do next really. I’ve tried googling Aden Villas and not come up with anything and an electoral roll search on findmypast comes up blank also. I’ve found a death cert for a Kate Brewer in 1921 and, assuming she was a contemporary of Henry’s, the age is about right. Obviously I’m clutching at straws here but if anyone has any thoughts I’d love to hear them. Many thanks Maria

Hi Miriam Have you got Henry Kingston Goater DOB? Have you found him or his father on any Census? Cheryl x

Dear Cheryl Yes, Henry was born 1853 in Malta. I have all the information on him and his family. I haven't managed to find William on any census - in 1851 he was with the army in Malta and he was dead by 1855. Thanks for your interest, its much appreciated. Best wishes Maria

HI Maria, You really need to know more about Kate Brewer, like was she married, or is Brewer her maiden name, then you could look for her in the 1901 census. If you get the 1921 death certificate will that tell you any useful information (I have never had to get a UK cert that timeframe) ? What about searching for Aden villas in 1901 ? Di

Hi I checked the 1881 census - there was no census place called Tongham but 178 people claimed it as a birthplace, the people living with them seemed to have birthplaces all over Surrey. If its the same group of houses, there were 4 Aden Villas in Ondine Road, Camberwell - I don't know much about Surrey geography, does this sound right ? One was uninhabited, the others had families called Sedgley, Jones and Dale. Diane

hi miriam found this one on ancestry 1841 census william b. abt 1825 hampshire nether wallop apprentice jenny

Hi there I am not sure if you have Henry Goater's birth certificate but it may be worth sending for it. On Find My Past it is listed. GOATER, Henry, MALTA, 1853, 49th Regiment Vol 961 Page 12. Also GOATER, Rebecca, BALLINGARRY, 1848, 49th Regiment, Vol 961 Page 11. Rebecca is probably a sibling of Henry. I know that sometimes these overseas certificates don't tell you that much. Also do you have their marriage certificate? Alison

I can see from Rootschat that you do have the marriage certificate. Also that the 1841 Lookups come up with Hampshire, Sparsholt. William 48, Rebecca 50, William 13. Here is the name Rebecca again. Alison.

Tongham, Surrey is on the A31 and just South of Aldershot - which fits with the army Peter

This is the family at 1 Aden Villas in 1901 - don't think it is any help Name: Harry Liming Age: 38 Estimated birth year: abt 1863 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Charlotte Gender: Male Where born: Crookham, Hampshire, England Civil parish: Seale Ecclesiastical parish: Tangham St Paul Town: Tongham County/Island: Surrey Country: England Registration district: Farnham Sub-registration district: Farnham ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 140 Household Members: Name Age Charlotte Liming 37 Guy J Liming 2 Harry Liming 38 Kathleen Liming 6 Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 615; Folio: 104; Page: 23.

Maria When you say you cannot find any army info on him, was a proper search of muster rolls etc undertaken? These can give service record, description and origin of soldier. I think by searching for his cousin and an old address we may be making more work for ourselves. Alison

Dear All Thanks so much for your input and sorry for the delay in replying - I've been busy this weekend trying to keep my 10 year old twins entertained in the pouring rain!! Thanks for the info on Rebecca - I have sent for her birth cert so fingers crossed!! I've had two researchers working at Kew on my behalf. I'd love to go myself but family, work etc,. make it virtually impossible. Firstly I paid the regimental researchers from the Wardrobe and they didn't find anything. Then Heather (positive tinker) put me onto Kevin Asplin who also couldn't find any personal details on him. I agree that finding out details on Henry's cousin is a long shot however the problem I have is without any background on William I'm really struggling. I have photos of William Goater the famous Hampshire horse trainer and James who was a jockey and the family resemblance to my grandfather is startling. I know there's a link there somewhere!!! Thanks again for all your input and interest, it's very much appreciated. Best wishes Maria

Hi Maria If this is your Rebecca and her dad died in 1855ish, there is a Rebecca Goater, orphan, in a childrens' home in Hampshire. It says, it is not known where she is born. Although if this is her, it is sad, sending off for the records would let you know her family circumstances when she was admitted - if the records survive. A Rebecca Goater born about 1850 died in 1867 in the area - again if that is her that would be sad. There is no marriage entry for a Rebecca Goater. I got records for one of my ancestors who was in Barnardos, it told me about the parents, grandparents and included three photos. I was delighted. My great grandfather was put in a childrens' home when his father died, even though his mum was still alive. They struggled terribly then and usually went on to remarry if at all possible. Alison

Dear Alison Thanks for that. Where did you find this information? How do I go about accessing the orphanage records? If she is William's daughter she must have been left behind by the family for some reason as Henry was born in 1853 in Malta. You're right that people had to remarry fast - William's wife Ellen remarried to a fellow soldier also William and went on to have 2 more children and her second husband remarried on her death and had more children!! Thanks again for your input. Best wishes Maria

Hi Maria Sorry, I just searched for Rebecca Goater on Ancestry. One entry comes up alone for the 1861 census and that is for a Rebecca Goater aged 11, inmate of a very small infirmary called the paediatric orphan asylum in New Alresford, Hampshire. There are only a handful of children, a nurse and couple of teachers. One would need to find out what umbrella this orphanage came under, i.e. Barnardos, NCH or perhaps a local parish orphanage - some googling to be done - and then write off to that concern to see if they have her records in their archives. They may want to know your relationship to her. Alison

Maria From a quick google, it would seem that this orphanage did eventually come under the auspices of NCH - although NCH did not technically begin until 1869 in Lambeth (when a couple of years later they took in my great grandfather). They tell me they do not have his records any longer as the batch must have gone missing as it is so long ago. The same may likely apply to Rebecca although she may have stayed in the home until she was about 17 - which still only takes us to 1867 - which is when a Rebecca Goater of Alresford died. Even so, you may be lucky. I'm not sure what info her death certificate will give you, I suppose informant and cause of death - it won't tell you who her parents are. What makes me think that it could be her is that there is no apparent english birth certificate for her. Alison

Dear Alison Thanks so much for taking so much time and trouble to find out the information on Rebecca - it really is extremely good of you. I will do some digging and see what I can find. If she is William's daughter I can't understand why she wasn't with the rest of her family - unless she was sick and they couldn't take her with them to Malta. They were back in England in 1855 so I wonder why she didn't join them, maybe I'll never know. Sorry to be a pest but is there any chance you could post the census entry - my subs to findmypast has just finished and I am keeping a low profile until the credit card statement lands!! Many thanks again for all your help Best wishes Maria

Miriam I notice a will for a William GOATER is available for download from Nationalarchives gov uk It says he is a Gardener of Upham in Hampshire which is SW of Winchester. The date (which would be the date of probate not when the will was made) is 1853. It will cost you £3.50 to get a copy but worth a go I think. Bryan

Dear Bryan Thanks so much for that. I will certainly have a look at it. Best wishes Maria