Genealogy Chat

FYI

I posted the census info to help others who may be attempting to assist you, and to show that he thought he'd been born well before 1860!

You haven't yet answered the questions which have been asked of you, nor have you commented on the possible scenario I suggested on page one

Thank you Ricochet for your attempts to help, but as I mentioned before I have all the information that you have just provided. My aunt not only remembered but she kept a wealth of letters and documents. ie death and marriage certificates relating to George and Susannah, it was only his life before 1881 that was so difficult to work out. The lovely ArgyllGran has been so helpful and provided what I think is the most likely scenario.

Re George's birthplace - seems to have been confused between Chesterfield and Chester or Cheshire ("Chestershire" on image in 1891).

As you have Susanna Phillips (c1860) in your tree, my posts above must be the right people

Note that George wasn't sure where he was born, except that it was not Derbyshire until 1911

And he was certainly born before 1860

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
115 Exeter Street Plymouth, Plymouth, Devon, England

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Tomlinson Head Married Male 53 1858 Cart Driver Chesterfield Image Transcription
Susan Tomlinson Wife Married Female 51 1860 - Plymouth Devon Image Transcription
Ethel Tomlinson Daughter Widow Female 24 1887 - Plymouth Devon Image Transcription
Olive Tomlinson Daughter Single Female 20 1891 Domestic Servant Plymouth Devon Image Transcription
Willin Tomlinson Son - Male 13 1898 School Plymouth Devon Image Transcription
Ethel Brown Granddaughter - Female 2 1909 - Plymouth Devon Image Transcription

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Exeter Street, Plymouth, Devon, England

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Tomlinson Head Married Male 32 1859 Carman Cheshire Image Transcription
Susanna Tomlinson Wife Married Female 30 1861 - Devonshire Image Transcription
Ethel Mary Tomlinson Daughter Single Female 4 1887 - Devonshire Image Transcription
George Phillips Tomlinson Son Single Male 2 1889 - Devonshire Image Transcription
Olive May Tomlinson Daughter Single Female 3 1888 - Devonshire Image Transcription
Print individual transcription View image Individual transcription
First name(s) Susanna
Last name Tomlinson
Relationship Wife
Marital condition Married
Gender Female
Age 30
Birth year 1861
Occupation -
Birth town -
Birth county Devonshire
House name -
Street Exeter Street
Parish Plymouth
Town Plymouth
City Plymouth
County Devon
Country England





1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
6, North Street, Plymouth, Devon, England

Print household transcription Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Tomlinson Head Married Male 42 1859 Stone Merchants Carman N K, Cheshire Image Transcription
Susannah Tomlinson Wife Married Female 40 1861 - Plymouth, Devonshire Image Transcription
Ethel Tomlinson Daughter Single Female 14 1887 Domestic Servant Plymouth, Devonshire Image Transcription
George Tomlinson Son Single Male 12 1889 - Plymouth, Devonshire Image Transcription
Olive Tomlinson Daughter Single Female 10 1891 - Plymouth, Devonshire Image Transcription
William Tomlinson Son Single Male 3 1898 - Plymouth, Devonshire Image Transcription
Edwin Phillips Lodger Single Male 42 1859 General Labourer Plymouth, Devonshire Image Transcription
Print individual transcription View image Individual transcription
First name(s) Susannah
Last name Tomlinson
Relationship Wife
Marital condition Married
Gender Female
Age 40
Birth year 1861
Occupation -
Birth town Plymouth
Birth county Devonshire

Guessing, in view of the mention of Susannah in your text

Marriages Jun 1886 (>99%)
PHILLIPS Susanna Plymouth 5b 475 Scan available - click to view
TOMLINSON George Plymouth 5b 475

You can't always rely on what people 'remember'

What exactly does the man's marriage cert say about him, and his father?

You haven't even said who he married

Thank you everybody for your help. Explanation... George is my great grandfather had lots of paperwork on him after he married my grandmother in Plymouth and could back it up with census returns. My Aunt also wrote down every thing she could remember about him. So she knew he was born in Holymoorside, his parents were William Tomlinson and Jane Green. I sent for their marriage certificate .Found a birth in 1860 in Chesterfield for a George ( the one ArgllGran quoted ) so thought that might have been him, also found the census for 1881 where he is a servant and also just a possible in the previous census , again as a farm servant. . Could not find him with his parents as George but did actually see the "Enzor" and did wonder about it. Never come across the ones for Jane , so many thanks for that help. Ditto for the ones for William in Brampton. Although I know there was a Tomlinson family in Brampton because I came across a Samuel Tomlinson in the Old Brampton burials.. Again it was Aunt who said that Sussannah, my great grandmother was a Quaker. When I have been stuck in the past it has been possible to look at local church records because the local clergyman usually made absolutely sure about BDM's but because I was so stuck on this family was clutching at straws for why I was having so much trouble and not being near enough to visit records offices in the area. Again many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to help.

As we don't yet know where Dumpling found the details she quoted re George, maybe she thinks this is his birth:

Births Sep 1860 (>99%)
TOMLINSON George Chesterfield 7b 499

when perhaps Ensor/Enzor may be the right person. Enzor's parents and place of residence certainly match what she says, and there doesn't seem to be any census record of a likely George Tomlinson, except 1881 (above).

But of course we can't say whether the George in 1881 is George or Ensor/Enzor.

We really need Dumpling to come back and tell us where she got her info.


[EDIT: PM sent to let Mary/Dumpling know she has replies.]

religion has nothing to do with civil records

The birth may not have been registered, as it was before 1875,but his marriage and death certainly should be


EDITED


george could have been registered under GREEN

Ensor was registered in JFM 1860, and the parents didn't marry till AMJ 1859, so no way could george have been conceived after the marriage


Marriages Jun 1859 (>99%)
Green Jane Chesterfield 7B 868 Scan available - click to view
Tomlinson William Chesterfield 7b 868

The other possibility is that he was actually Ensor, but didn't like the name and decided to call himself George

there is NO record on freebmd for Ensor apart from the birth

Here's Ensor:

Births Mar 1860
TOMLINSON Ensor Chesterfield 7b 545

Rose

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about William Tomlinson
Name: William Tomlinson
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 28 Apr 1833
Baptism Place: Saint Thomas,Old Brampton,Derby,England
Father: William Tomlinson
Mother: Sarah
FHL Film Number: 497389

William before marriage:


1851 England Census about William Tomlinson
Name: William Tomlinson
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Tomlinson
Mother's name: Sarah Tomlinson
Gender: Male
Where born: Brampton, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Brampton
Ecclesiastical parish: Brampton St Thomas
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Registration district: Chesterfield
Sub-registration district: Ashover
ED, institution, or vessel: 12f
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 114
Piece: 2147
Folio: 903
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
William Tomlinson 41
Sarah Tomlinson 38
William Tomlinson 18

Jane before marriage??;


1841 England Census about Jane Green
Name: Jane Green
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Gender: Female
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: St Peter
Hundred: Nottingham
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

View image
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Castle
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 871
Book: 8
Folio: 28
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
William Green 35
Mary Ann Green 30
William Green Jr. 10
Sarah Green 8
Jane Green 5
Juliett Green 3



1851 England Census about Jane Green
Name: Jane Green
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Mary Ann Green
Gender: Female
Where born: Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Nottingham St Peter
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
Town: Nottingham
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
View image
Registration district: Nottingham
Sub-registration district: Exchange
ED, institution, or vessel: 1g
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 168
Piece: 2133
Folio: 383
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Ann Green 44
William Green 19
Jane Green 15
Juliett Green 12
Martha Green 8
Henry Green 6

Purely for elimination, this is NOT him in 1891. Birthplace on image is Disley, Cheshire.


1891 England Census about George Tomlinson
Name: George Tomlinson
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Alice Tomlinson
Gender: Male
Where born: Chestnre, Derbyshire, England - NO!
Civil Parish: Ashton under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
Town: Audenshaw
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration district: Audenshaw
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3281
Folio: 137
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
George Tomlinson 31
Alice Tomlinson 31
Sarah Tomlinson 1

This looks like him, now called George:


1881 England Census about George Tomlinson
Name: George Tomlinson
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Holymoor Side, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Unstone
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: Hallowes Farm
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Farm Serv Indoor
Registration district: Chesterfield
Sub-registration district: Dronfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3444
Folio: 36
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
George Ashton 69
Letitia Ashton 71
Mary Johnson 25
William Johnson 27
George Tomlinson 21
Thomas Ward 15
Elizabeth Ward 17
Anne Johnson 2

Can't see William and Jane after 1881 in census records, so maybe . . .???:

Deaths Jun 1883 (>99%)
Tomlinson William 50 Chesterfield 7b 408

Deaths Mar 1887 (>99%)
Tomlinson Jane 51 Chesterfield 7b 388

I can't make out how you know his parents' names?

Can't see Enzor after 1871, but here are his parents - can't say if they're "your" William and Jane, of course:


1881 England Census about William Tomlinson
Name: William Tomlinson
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Jane Tomlinson
Gender: Male
Where born: Brampton, Derbyshire, England
Civil Parish: Brampton
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street address: Holymoorside <<<<<<<<<<<<
Occupation: Mason Laborer
Registration district: Chesterfield
Sub-registration district: Chesterfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3437
Folio: 30
Page Number: 35
Household Members:
Name Age
William Tomlinson 48
Jane Tomlinson 45
Elizabeth Tomlinson 8