Genealogy Chat

Morning all

I have an entry on familysearch website that has 'intended marriage' as the event. its between James Lyles and Sophia Edwards 5 Jane 1840, Waltham Abbey Essex .. have been unable to find another related documents .

My understanding is it didnt go ahead .. am I correct?

Many tks for any hepl..
Cheers
Karen of Brisbane
ps.. I had printed this document in July 2010, which had no event notation about intended marriage, I looked up marriage again today on familysearch and it now has 'intended marriage" .. :)

There are 2 entries on familysearch.org -

One under England, Marriages, 1538–1973 and one under England, Essex Parish Registers, 1538-1900



James Lyles

England, Marriages, 1538–1973

marriage: 05 Jan 1840 Waltham-?Abbey,? Essex,? England

spouse: Sophia Edwards

groom's name: James Lyles
bride's name: Sophia Edwards
marriage date: 05 Jan 1840
marriage place: Waltham-Abbey, Essex, England
indexing project (batch) number: I05606-4
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1526973




James Lyles

England, Essex Parish Registers, 1538-1900

other: 05 Jan 1840 Waltham-?Abbey,? Essex,? England

spouse: Sophia Edwards

name: James Lyles
event: Intended Marriage
event date: 05 Jan 1840
event place: Waltham-Abbey, Essex, England
gender: Male
marital status: Married
spouse: Sophia Edwards
digital folder number: 4298754

Yes, these are the two documents I have, but canot find on Roots UK BDM website..

K

To me it sounds it may be a marriage bann. Perhaps the marriage never took place or took place in another church.


?????
Marriages Jun 1842
BENNETT Elizabeth Edmonton 3 75
BRITT Margaret Edmonton 3 75
EDWARDS Sophia Edmonton 3 75 <<<<<<<
EWINGTON George Edmonton 3 75
MASON George Edmonton 3 75
MORRIS Eliza Ann Edmonton 3 75
WARNE James Edmonton 3 75

Edmonton was the registration for Waltham Abbey sometimes known as Waltham Cross.

Ozi

Tks Ozibird...

The more I look, I am also certain that marriage did not take place... first time I have seen this.. banns and then no wedding

K

When the parties are from different parishes then the banns have to read in both parish,s .

It may be that Waltham Abbey was the grooms parish but they would marry in the brides parish.

Often people got around the rules by saying they both lived at the same address, It was often thought that if a suitcase of clothes were kept at the brides home address for six weeks then this established the groom as being resident in the same area so only the one lot of banns were needed at the church were the marriage was taking place.

This wasn't strictly true but many did it


Agree though in this instant the marriage doesn't appear to have taken place

How did you get back to these people?

Sorry Reggie

Not sure what you mean ??

K

Probably how are you related - was Sophia an n x aunt or whatever.

This 'might' be the 1842 Edmonton marriage - there are only 7 names on the previous freebmd copy and paste. There should be 8

Sophia Edwards
Spouse Name: Charles Richards - labourer
Spouse Age: Both of Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 May 1842
Parish: Enfield St Andrew
Borough: Enfield
Father Name: John Edwards - Labourer
Spouse Father Name: Charles Richards - Gun maker
Register Type: Parish Register
Both Charles and Sophia made their marks x

Address Enfield Lock

Witnesses the marks of William and Mary Sanders

CAN ANYONE LOOK UP 1841 CENSUS

1841 England Census
Name: Sophia Edwards
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Enfield
Hundred: Edmonton
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: Enfield Lock

Occupation: none recorded

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Enfield

Piece: 653
Book: 7
Folio: 37
Page Number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
William Saunders abt 1806 Middlesex, England Enfield, Middlesex
Mary Saunders abt 1796 Middlesex, England Enfield, Middlesex
John Saunders abt 1833 Middlesex, England Enfield, Middlesex
Charles Richards abt 1816 Middlesex, England Enfield, Middlesex
Joseph Richards abt 1821 Enfield, Middlesex
Sophia Edwards abt 1821 Middlesex, England Enfield, Middlesex

There's no relationships in 1841 or place of birth. All the household are born in the county except for Joseph. William, Charles and Joseph's occupations are 'L' (for Labourer).

1851 England Census
Name: Sophia Richards
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles Richards
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Enfield
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: Wash Hoe Lane [?? I think. It's difficult to interpret.]

Occupation: none recorded for any of them

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Edmonton

Piece: 1703
Folio: 567
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Richards 36 - born Birmingham
Sophia Richards 32
Elizabeth Edward 15 - visitor; born Cheshunt, Hertfordshire

????

Deaths Sep 1854 Richards Charles Edmonton 3a 136

Marriages Sep 1861
Gimber John Marylebone 1a 978 <<<
Hawksley Catherine Ellen Marylebone 1a 978
RICHARDS Sophia Marylebone 1a 978 <<<
Wansey Henry Marylebone 1a 978


1861 England Census
Name: Sophia Gimber
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Gimber
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: Sydenham St Bartholomew
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address: 2 Wellington Terrace

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Sydenham

Piece: 416
Folio: 65
Page Number: 20
Household Members: Name Age
John Gimber 41 - Labourer: born Glinton, Northamptonshire
Sophia Gimber 42

1871 England Census
Name: Sophia Gimber
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Joh Gimber
Gender: Female
Where born: Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip
Town: Sydenham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Sydenham

Piece: 770
Folio: 12
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Joh Gimber 50 - Gardener
Sophia Gimber 50
Harriet Gimber 8 - Daughter




1881 England Census
Name: Sophia Gimber
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Gimber
Gender: Female
Where born: Chester
Civil parish: Lewisham
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 1 Fir Street

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Sydenham

Piece: 737
Folio: 65
Page Number: 57
Household Members: Name Age
John Gimber 60 - Garden Labr
Sophia Gimber 60
Harriet Gimber 18 - Daughter
Emma Richens 8 - Visitor
Ann Cook 47 - Lodger
Julia Palmer 39 - Lodger

1891 England Census
Name: Sophia Gimber
Age: 72
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Waltham Cross, Hertfordshire, England
Civil parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillips
Town: Sydenham
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 10 Fir Street

Condition as to marriage: widow

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Sydenham

Piece: 524
Folio: 150
Page Number: 10
Household Members: Name Age
William Brant 47
Ellen Brant 48
Alice Brant 18
William Brant 13
Thomas Brant 9
Sophia Gimber 72
Harriet Gimber 25 - Laundress; born Sydenham


Deaths Dec 1893 Gimber Sophia 76 Lewisham 1d 854

1901 England Census
Name: Harriet Gumber [Gimber on image]
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Sydenham
Civil parish: Lewisham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael
Town: Sydenham
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 40 Porthcawe Rd [I think]

Occupation: Laundress

Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Lewisham
Sub-registration district: Sydenham

Piece: 557
Folio: 66
Page Number: 2
Household Members: Name Age
Harriet Gumber 30
Rose L Gumber 19

Morning all

You have been busy bees..

Mant tks for all this info.. will need to go thru it all..

Its a long story on how I arrived at this couple. I am doing a one name study on "EVENNETT" and trying to tie together 2 families who lived in Waltham Abbey Essex. Sophia Edwards is part of the Evennett line.Some one is querering my findings and so I adding sources to all info. Sophia was a hiccup. But I needed to know who she married, so tks for all the info.

Cheers
Karen :):)

Good luck with your project, Karen.

I've looked at 1841 again. The image is very faint and it is probable that Charles Richards is recorded as not born in county.

Ozi (Also a Queenslander)

Tks Ozibird..

all great info..

Just a side question .. have you tried to cut and paste from the new style/colour of boards. Just tried to c and p and the print is so faint its invisable .. or am I doing something wrong ( have c and p same way for years). I like to keep info when people have taken the trouble of finding it for me.

Cheers
K

Interesting!

Copying your last post into a word doc, the words Karen and Report are more of a royal blue than greeny/blue as it appears on the site. The black text is still the black text.

Edit -I, as you probably do, just highlighted, right click, copy...go to the open blank doc and paste.