Genealogy Chat

Hi,
I would like some advice on a search I'm making for the death of my great aunt Beatrice Knowles Born in March qtr 1891 in Bury (8c 603).
These Details from Free BMD search fitted perfectly in sequence with her 2 sisters Lydia (1889) and Elsie (1892). Also the 1901 Census shows her at age 10 in Bury.

However There seems to be a problem with her death registration details, if I've found the right Beatrice.

Beatrice Married twice but after her second marriage she was Beatrice Johnson, her husbands all pre deceased her and I know from personal memories that she died in the mid 1970's in Bury.

Searching though the Free BMD images I find that she died in the March quarter of 1975 (which sounds about right from memory) Vol 38 Page 0763 but it gives her date of birth as 20 Dec 1895. This does not agree with the birth details I have found or the 1901 census.
Futhermore, If I try look at the BMD images to find a Beatrice Knowles born in Bury in either the Dec qtr 1895 or the Mar qtr of 1896 I don't find anything. How likely is it (or common) that the date of birth given on the registration certificate is completely wrong ? Hence I can assume that the death details I found are for the correct person ?

Thanks

If she was born 20/12/1890 then you can reckon that she or the person who registered the death knocked five years off her true age.

Why ? I don't see why that would happen, especially when somebody is dead, and she certainly didn't register her own death. :)

Information on death certs is only what the informant knew or thought they knew. The YOB is quite often out. I think that POB is now entered on death certs - I bet none of my children know where I was born!

Ok, thanks to all who contributed. I'll take it I found the right person then and whover notified them, made a guess ! She had no spouse or children likely to know.

Frank

The only information that is certain on a death certificate is:-

date of death
place of death
cause of death
name and address of doctor
name, address and relationship of informant


ALL other information is based on what the informant knew ......... ie, what the deceased told people


even husbands and children may not know the truth


so it wasn't the informant who knocked 5 years off her age ...... it was probably her told everyone she was 5 years younger than she really was!


I always consider a death certificate to be the least reliable document ..... just because so much is based on "hearsay"


As an example ............ my own grandfather died in 1964, before dates of birth were put on record.

His age was estimated at 70 when he died .......... which was about correct


Except that the whole family believed that his birthday was December 25 1884

After he died AND after the death was registered, an uncle discovered a birth certificate tucked away

..... he was actually born January 9 1885


only 2 weeks, but stll!


and he must have known about it, because he had the certificate!



sylvia

I have to admit I find the date discrepancies understandable because my grandmother celebrated her birthday on a different day to that stated on her birth certificate. Apparently she didn't like the number 4 so celebrated on the 3rd instead. She was also very touchy about her age and knocked so many years off that when she talked of her grandchildren, she didn't mention to the two eldest to avoid anyone working out her lie.

My own mother has never told me her true age, I always thought she was 2 years younger than she actually is until I started researching my family history .......! I haven't had the heart to let on.

I now find myself hiding my age from people for no logical reason.

I began doing this hobby 11 years ago. I thought the easiest person to track would be my grandmother. As I had her death certificate, I knew her year of birth. I was in the family record centre with all these volumes of births and I started in 1893 which should have been her birth year. She wasn't there so I worked my way back to 1890 and found her.

When I ordered my grandparents marriage certificate, I found she'd already "lost" three years when she was 27. A secret she kept from her family for 50 years!

As an aside, my cousin celebrated her birthday on the wrong day for the first 15 years of her life. It was only when she needed a copy of her birth certificate that she found the truth. My Uncle had remembered the date he registered her birth, not her actual birth date. Yes, know what you're thinking, you'd have thought my Aunt might have remembered the correct date but..........

My father got my grandmother's dob wrong when he registered her death. He thought she was a year old than she actually was!

I discovered when I got my grandparents marriage certificate that BOTH had added one or two years to their ages

Grandma said she was 21, was actually 20

Grandfather said he was 20, was actually 17½

....... and this was the same one who celebrated his birthday on the wrong day!


BOTH their fathers were still alive, and presumably attended the marriage, and one of Grandma's sisters and ehr husband were witnesses


so it wasn't a "secret" wedding!


sylvia

My grandfather knocked three years off his age, when he married he said he was 29 when he was 32.

Whether my grandmother ever knew we will never know as they died together in a road accident so his death was registered with the date of birth the children were told.

jax

As nobody seems to have mentioned, a March quarter registration fits well with a late December birth, as the preparations for Christmas etc. could have delayed the registration.

Quite, Keith :-)

Given that one is supposed to register a birth within six weeks, even late November births could be found in registrations in the March quarter of the following year.


Also, not everyone knew when they were born, if they did not have a birth certificate nor a baptismal one.

Some years ago I had to rush from the Highlands down to Berkshire following the death of my great aunt.. I was 'phoned when I was out west and never even got home before driving south. It was all very demanding and even though I had her and all our family recorded on the family tree I still managed to register her death and get her dob one year out.. It happens.

SylviaInCanada - Just a thought, but could your grandfathers birth have been registered late and they gave a date later than his actual date to avoid paying the fine? If so, he may have known of this all along and celebrated the correct date rather than what the cert "said" was his birthday.
Have had this happen to one of mine.

Keith

I was about to say the same thing....good job i read the whole thread :o))

Janet

Your second post really made me laugh :o))

quote..

As nobody seems to have mentioned, a March quarter registration fits well with a late December birth, as the preparations for Christmas etc. could have delayed the registration.

..unquote

I actually mentioned it in the first post, which started this thread.

Rob


that is a definite possibility

and certainly did happen


but we'll never know now!




It may seem strange to us ........ but ages and birth dates were of less importance to our ancestors that they are to us


and many people simply did not know how old they actually were



sylvia

Keith wasn't meaning you Frank...it was that no-one pick up what you said in your post

You said Beatrice Knowles Born in March qtr 1891 in Bury
& that her birth date on her D/C was 20 Dec 1895

So that would make her maybe registered in March Qtr 1895

So the birth you found found in Bury could be her as the Qtr is correct but the year is out by 4 years



Hope that makes sense