Genealogy Chat

Thankyou - might have known you'd already looked for the birth! Sadly none of those marriages have the bride as Mary which really is the only thing we have to go on so a bit stuck really. So frustrating to hear nothing from the other contact but I'll just have to keep hoping.

So it rather seems to have come to a full stop for now, but I'm so grateful to all the kind people who have helped me get back so much further than before - it's good to know there are still people who will spend time and money just to help a complete stranger!

Thanks again - I will do another update if I hear any more,

Best wishes to all, Sue

Hi Sue

Already searched for births for any Helen Minto's born 1820 - 1840, yours doesn't appear so I guess she was one of the many who's births weren't registered or baptised. :-(((

It would be great if the member with the siblings Archibald and Margaret in their tree were to reply, just so that you can positively rule them in or out.

These are the only James Minto marriages showing on SP.

No Date Surname Forename Spouse Name/Frame No Sex Parish City/County GROS Data Image Extract
1 11/08/1811 MINTO JAMES CATHRINE BROWN/FR453 M EYEMOUTH /BERWICK 739/ 0020 0202 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
2 03/06/1816 MINTO JAMES ELIZABETH ROBERTSON/FR3244 M GLASGOW GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/001 0280 0303 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
3 05/09/1819 MINTO JAMES ANN SKELTON/FR610 M PETERHEAD /ABERDEEN 232/ 0020 0411 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
4 30/06/1826 MINTO JAMES ELIZABETH ANDERSON/FR837 M CARSTAIRS /LANARK 633/ 0040 0140 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER


Mary

Hi Mary,

Sorry for the delay but computer gremlins at work again! Thank you very much for all that - esp finding Helen Mints ( shouldn't the plural of Minto be Mintoes tho!!!!) which sounds very likely. I had sent a PM to 2 people on here who had Helen in their trees - one came back with a definite no, but haven't had a reply from the 2nd one. This one has Helen's 1841 siblings - Archibald and Margaret in her tree so I would really like to hear from her but of course can do no more.

There is another Helen in 1941 too that I rather fancy, as she is living at Barony, Lanarkshire, which is where her first marriage to Andrew took place. But of course if it's the wrong marriage........! This is the one which gives her mother's name as Mrs Minto so very useful!

There is also the query on her age, as all the other censuses and certs seem to point to a birth date of a bit later than 1830 - more like 1835 in fact, but again that is always a bit speculative.

Seem to be more questions than answers at the moment, but many thanks for helping! As you obviously have SP is there any chance of you having a look for Helen's birth as that is the next cert I reckon I need.

Regards Sue

Hi Sue

Been doing some more digging around on SP. I feel pretty sure that what I've found is correct.

Helen Minto born 1830 in my posting above is in Selkirk in 1851 (servant aged 21), pob Roxburgh.

In 1851, the other Helen Minto born 1829 (daughter of William & Janet) is now married to James Cranston. They married 13/1/1850. In 1851 her mother Janet is with her and James.

Mary

Hi Sue

Having a look and comparing Helen Minto's on the 1841 census between Ancestry and SP, I found SP had 2 Helen Minto's in Hobkirk, Roxburgh whereas Ancestry only has one. I did find it eventually transcribed as Mints!!

I looked up the one on SP and found that the one missing on Ancestry has her mother's name as Mary......what do you think, could this be your Helen, her mother's 1st name matches with Helen's later marriage to John? On SP they are definitely Minto, the Ancestry transcription shown below has them as Mints, but it is the same people.

1841 Scotland Census about Helen Mints
Name: Helen Mints
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Gender: Female
Where born: Roxburghshire, Scotland
Civil parish: Hobkirk
County: Roxburghshire
Address: Peel Knowe
Parish Number: 790
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Mints 35
Helen Mints 11
Archibald Mints 7
Margaret Minto 5


Mary

AMEN to that Sue.... I have one that I could do with those very nice men on WDYTA..... Shelved it for a while but suppose I should ressurrect it soon.

Thankyou both - I think this marriage sounds increasingly dodgy even if the GRO say it's the only one. I could of course be looking at the wrong Andrew Walker in the 1851 census where he is a soldier, but it gives the same rank and regiment as Mary Ann's1853 birth cert so does seem very likely. Thanks for looking for military marriages and deaths Mary - didn't know they were available anywhere. I have looked at the very limited death list for the Crimean War but nothing there either.

This lot are being a right pain! Not really sure what to do next as the Births for Helen are all a bit too iffy to just send off for on the off chance they are right. Oh to be a millionaire - or on Who Do You Think You Are where it's all so simple!

Sue

Hi Sue..... I have to agree with Mary.... and have doubts... If they were mine I would put it at 50/50 until I could find further details. Having said that, It could be possible that he was a labourer within the services.

Thinking along the lines that he is in the services I have just had a look on the Military Marriages & deaths section (FMP) 1850/1860... Can find no mention of either a military marriage or a death for Andrew Walker or Helen/Ellen Minto... !!!

Margaret

Hi Sue

To be honest (although I wouldn't rule it out entirely just yet) - I would be doubtful about this marriage too. I can't quite see Andrew being in the Army in 1851 and then a labourer in 1852 and back to being in the Army again in 1853/4.

BUT, a big but! I just remembered....I have found some of mine where they have put what was their former occupation not their current occupation (i.e. Army service), so it could be right? :-((((

Mary

Yes, Mary - I did phone them to order this one as I wasn't sure if anything even existed for this early date. Cost me £13 so I won't be doing it this way very often! You say your Walkers were all Edinburgh, which is where all mine were until this one in flipping Glasgow! Not a million miles away but casts another doubt in my mind. Sadly I don't even know Andrew's father's name yet to check if we have any common ground here.

Thanks anyway,

Sue

Hi Sue

I was just checking LOL.

I have a whole load of Walker's from Edinburgh (about 12 of them) and not one of their births were registered! They just don't want to make life easy for us do they! lol.

Are you sending off to SGRO for these records? It's a lot cheaper to get them online.

Mary

Sorry - not paying attention here! Yes, it was Andrew Walker, and that is the extract they sent me, but for some reason their letter said Andrew Gardner. Obviously just a clerical error as I ordered and received the Walker /Minto marriage. For some reason I typed in Gardner on here instead of Walker! Blame it on old age, but thanks for pointing it out anyway!

Sue

Hi Sue

Not sure if I'm missing something here?

I thought the 1st marriage for Helen Minto was to Andrew Walker not Gardner?

Mary

I have now received the details of what I hope is Helen's 1st marriage. Unfortunately it is just an entry in the church records, rather than a full cert so not as useful. The marriage was on 5th Feb 1852, between Andrew Gardner, labourer and Helen Minto, both of Colton. It took place at Colton Church,Glasgow, Parish of Barony,Lanarkshire. So with no details of age, parents etc it's hard to be positive it was them, and of course an occupation of soldier would have helped as he was one in the 1851 census I believe and in March 1853 when Mary Ann was born in Portsmouth. Not too sure about Glasgow either. On the plus side, the accompanying letter from the Scot. GRO said that this was the only marriage found for Helen Minto between 1850 - 54.

So I'm not totally convinced It's the right one - any one like to comment please?

Regards Sue

Rose, I have contacted the lady who has Helen in her tree and unfortunately she doesn't have the parentage. However i do think the dob is just too early as the censuses, and more important, the marriage cert all point to her being born 1834/5.

My next step must be to send off for Helen's 1st marriage cert and see what that says.

Thanks, Sue

Thankyou Janet, seems rather odd then that we only have the names of the 2 mothers. Even more so for the bridegroom as his mother is entered with the same surname as he has rather than a different maiden name, so perhaps she wasn't married? This family have been a real nightmare - thank goodness for all the kind people on here!

Yes Margaret - I did manage to get the photos off him ( plus several other very useful ones ) and copied both sides of them. Sadly doesn't help us on this quest as it is the paternal side we are after, whereas my sainted Grandma only knew of her side of the family. I would love the originals but he insisted on having them all back to be chucked into a drawer somewhere! Mind you, I did manage to have a sneaky look in the drawer so found my grandfather's Military Medal and original citation, which he had 'forgotten' all about! Men!

Sue

Hi Sue... My father was a "forthright Yorkshireman too" so know exactly what you mean...... Have you managed to persuede him to let you have a look at these photos etc..... If I understand you correctly it is your grandmother who wrote out the family tree, so it follows that she wanted future generations to know. You may find that although your uncle denies it, that she did know. Knowing it was complex decided to make a note of it all... As he responds to direct questions perhaps a "Can I see these photos please." or something along those lines. Could say that you would like to see if there are any family likenesses etc.
Regards Margaret.

You asked about Scottish marriage certificates. I can confirm that on the ones I have, even when a parent is deceased their details are entered. (I suppose if both parents were dead and the father had died when the child was young, there is the possibility that they wouldn't know his name.)

Thanks Rose, I think I will send another message to the lady who has the 'wrong ' Helen in her tree, as hers was born c. 1830 in Roxburgh so this could well be that one showing up again. I only asked her to check who Helen married as didn't know of her background, so will ask her about parents etc.

Will let you know - again!

Sue

The one I found on IGI seems a liitle older than your Helen.

Using the same batch number there are sibling Jesse, John Archibald and Betty.

This would be the family in 1841:

1841 Scotland Census
about Jessy Minto
Name: Jessy Minto
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Roxburghshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Hobkirk
County: Roxburghshire
Address: Forkins
Parish Number: 790
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Minto 50
Janel Minto 40
George Minto 20
Jessy Minto 15
Helen Minto 12
Archibald Minto 10
Robert Minto 8
Margaret Minto 6
Peter Minto 4
Agnes Minto 10 Mo
James Minto 10 Mo

Rose