Genealogy Chat

Hi

Just to throw a spanner in the works even more. My mum said her nan's birthday was 11th May...................

Lee

Hi again
One other thing I forgot to mention on my previous post.
In 1911 May Elizabeth Winter and her parents Wiliam Alfred and Emily are in Catford, Lewisham. As the Winter-Syrett marriage took place in Lewisham and Mrs Syrett died in Lewisham, it is most likely it is all the same lady.

Helen

Hi
I can help with Mrs Syrett.
I have the index entry for her death:
May Elizabeth Syrett, born 12 May 1893, died Lewisham district.1981 Dec
The strange thing is that the birthday is exactly the same as May Elizabeth Burston except the year is 93 not 95?! weird!
She was definitely May Elizabeth Winter as I looked up the birth of her son and the mothers name was Winter. So I would say the St Olave birth in Jun 1893 was her and that she was the daughter of William Alfred & Emily Winter. By the way in the 1891 census William Alfred has his brothers and sisters living with him, thats why there is so many adults in the household.

Now, another interesting item regarding Alice May Winter.
In 1911 she is Alice May, mother Emily.
in 1891 she is May, daughter of Charles W & Emily Winter.
Both censuses are in Newington.
And this is her birth:
Winter, Alice May, St Saviour, Jun 1894

Helen

Cheers Rose and Margaret,

I have seen the entry on FreeBMD and then someone gave me access to their tree.

As i said we spoke to my mums aunt and she confirmed Fred Burston died in 45 as he was unable to give her away at her marriage. Yeah I believe they never got married due to Fred being married. He was also definately living with May Elizabeth at the time of his death.

I will check with the guy who tree I have accessed.
Lee

As for the someone who believes that May Elizabeth married a Harry Syrett, do they actually have the marriage certificate?

Rose

Could be the informant at her death didn't get her age correct or May was knocking a few years off herself.

If I were you I'd get this:

Births Jun 1893
Winter May Elizabeth St.Olave 1d 271

A June registration fits with a May birth. If it comes back as May 11th you're on to a winner.

Rose

Hi Lee

I think all the assumptions are sound. Fred Burston 1884 and May Elizabeth Winter 1893 never married, cos Fred was married already when he commenced his new family.

If it were me, I would get Fred's death certificate to convince myself that it was not Louisa Sophia who reported it, but a member of your family.

I think you should discount the marriage of May E Winter to Harry Syrett as being a different person, possibly get the certificate to show she is May Edith, or trawl through the deaths quarter by quarter till you find a May Edith Syrett (which you may not find, it is possibly just May E).

I think you should then set about tracing Frederick Burston and May Elizabeth Winter. Like others, I cannot find her in 1901, but here is the family in 1891:

1891 England Census
about Emely Winter
Name: Emely Winter
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Alfred
Gender: Female
Where born: Battersea, London, England

Civil parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Augustine
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Alfred Winter 23
Emely Winter 25
Emily Beatrice Winter 6
Lillian Harriet Winter 11
Ethel Lueietea Winter 2
Ernest Albert Winter 16
Charles Frederick Winter 13
Florence Annie Winter 10
Emily Beatrice 7

The odd thing there is the children - there appear to be two Emily Beatrices and apart from her and Ethel Lucretia, the others are far too old to be children of the parents. Unfortunately I have a problem with Ancestry right now, so can't check the actual relationships.

Must post a help notice!

Margaret

Going by the Death Registers for May Elizabeth Winter born 1895 and Frederick Burston born 1884, there are no records apart from the ones we originally thought. May Elizabeth 1893 and Frederick Burston 1882.

Very very strange..................

Where do I go from here. As I said someone believes that May Elizabeth married a Harry Syrett and there is a record of that.

Hi

Just found the record:

First Quarter of 1976

May Elizabeth Burston b 11 May 1895

See if I can find a birth for that now.

Not too sure going to do a search on May Elizabeth Burston. Mum reckons she died 1976.

Lee,

When did May Elizabeth die? That might help us to find her birth.

Rose

Sorry Rose,

Am grabbing at straws. Having spoke to someone else they confirmed the May Elizabeth I believed to be my nan married a man called Harry Syrett, as you have confirmed.

I have found an Alice May Winter with a mother called Emily in the 1911 census. The reason I am pulling towards her is that she has a sister called Lillian and a brother called Fred, who my mum has confirmed as names that ring a bell.

I am wondering if Alice May Winter may have used in later years the name Elizabeth May, she may have been cristenedd Alice May Elizabeth Winter.

As you can see I am opening all sorts of avenues.

Lee

How do you know this is May Elizabeth?

Marriages Sep 1923
Winter May E Syrett Lewisham 1d 2417


It could be this one:

Births Dec 1890
Winter May Ethel Lewisham 1d 1039

Rose

Unable to find May Elizabeth in 1901 but here's the family that's she's with in 1911:

1901 England Census
about William E Wiater
Name: William E Wiater
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William A
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England
Civil parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Augustine Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 54
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 51
Household Members: Name Age
William A Wiater 34
Emily Wiater 35
Emily B Wiater 16
Lilliam H Wiater 14
Ethel L Wiater 12
William E Wiater 10
Stanley C Wiater 6

And Lilian's baptism:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Lilian Harriet Winter
Name: Lilian Harriet Winter
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 30 Jan 1887
Father's Name: William Alfred Winter
Mother's Name: Emily Winter
Parish: Saint Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey
Borough: Southwark
County: Middlesex

Rose

Who is Alice May?

Rose

Hi,

After finding another dead end can anyone tell me if they can see a marriage for Alice May Winter born 1894/95. This Winter has a mother called Emily. The May Elizabeth I thought I had married someone called Harry Syrett.

Also, was she christened Alice May Elizabeth??

Thanks
Lee

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the update.

Rose

Hi,

Just to let every one know who has helped me here. My uncle spoke to his aunt. Unfortunately, her memory wasn'tr great and all she could confirm regarding Fred Burston that indeed he died in 1945 as Rose said. As far as she was aware her mother May Elizabeth Winter did marry Fred Burston, but she did not know anything about his family, as in mother and fathers name or siblings. Oh she did confirm her nan was Emily Winter, which ties in with the 1911 census record I found for May Elizabeth.

This leads me to believe that there is maybe a bigamist marriage with my great nan and grandfather but even stranger no marriage record.

Thanks to everyone who has helped especially Rose.

Lee

Ah right sorry rose,

Could well be. Be interesting once my uncle talks to his aunt.

thanks
Lee

Might be a red herring, but there is a Louisa Burston 23 and George Burston 25 in Cardiff in 1911.

Margaret