Genealogy Chat

Hi Polly/Heather
Thanks for info-JLe

Janet, a "traveller" was not a gipsey :) Its what we would think of as a company rep nowdays (a commercial traveller). Travelling round the country taking orders for their company's goods. I have a traveller in biscuits and a traveller in tea. (shame they didnt get together). A traveller as a term covering anyone who tends to not have a conventional lifestyle is a very recent pc term.

So you arent looking for gipsies, who I have no doubt would have been entered in those non-pc days as a hawker or gippo :) but would have been unlikely to have married in church anyway.

A carver and guilder would have probably been apprenticed as a cabinet maker. So look out for apprenticeship records.

Janet, I think (and I might be wrong) but a carver and gilder was as the name suggests. I would guess that the reason you are finding a few in one family is because it's likely a craft handed down the generations.

I don't think my family descended from gypsies. I already have a family lined up as the likely next preceding generation and if I am correct my gilder and carver's father was a bricklayer from the same area. I just need that blooming marriage beetween Thomas and Catherine to help me confirm my inklings.

I just got that email but I shall use quidco and get 25% :)

re ancestry subs, I let mine lapse due to the price last month. They've just emailed me with an offer of 20% off to renew. Glad I waited! lol

Sue xx

Hi Polly
just reading one of the replies about your relative marrying a carver and gilder. I am trying to sort out my son in laws relatives and he believed that there might have been travellers(gypsies) in the family going back to the 1800. I too am having difficulty finding some records but I have managed to find one marriage record which states the groom was a carver and gilder and the grooms father was a traveller. Up to last month I had never heard of a carver and gilder but now I seem to have found four of them from the same family. Perhaps someone could enlighten us about the occupation and could it be your missing relatives could have been travellers - I imagine that work could have been done by gypsies thinking about the old type of caravan....Of course I could be way of track -JLe

Polly

I was struck by the names, and also that Thomas is a stationer on all the records!



sylvia

Thanks Steven, I will look into that.

Well Well Sylvia, I hadn't spotted Amelia, I wondered what had happened to Ann! The name Amelia Catherine does fit withint the family because Mary Ann goes on to marry a Thomas Woodbridge and has a daughter named Amelia. There is also another highly likely child named Henry b1856 died 1858.

?? that Amelia's marriage


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Amelia Catherine Peak
Name: Amelia Catherine Peak
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Spouse Name: James Higgs
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 9 Jan 1865
Parish: St Giles Cripplegate
County: London
Borough: City of London
Father Name: Thomas Peak
Spouse Father Name: James Higgs



from image:-

Amelia
age 18
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address 2 Theee (?? Three) Herring Court
Father:- Thomas Peak, Fancy Staitoner


James
Age 21
Bachelor
Carver & Gilder
Address:- 4 Theee/Three Herring Court
Father:- James Higgs, carver & Gilder


Witnesses:- Edward Phillips and Mary Ann Peak


all signed their names



sylvia

welll


this looks like another child!!!


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Amelia Peak
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 28 Nov 1847
Father's Name: Thomas Peak
Mother's Name: Catherine Peak
Parish: Saint John The Baptist, Clerkenwell
Borough: Islington
County: Middlesex


Date of Birth:- August 31 1846
Address:- Tainmill (???) Street
Father's Occupation:- Paper Stationer


Poor is written in the right hand margin ..... and is also shown for most of the entries. Not sure what that means!


OR .......... Could Ann really be Amelia??




sylvia

so, for reference purposes, and to help me get my head around your family, is this them in 1851???


1851 Census

Name: Thomas Peak
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Cathrine
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England

Civil parish: Saffron Hill
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Saffron Hill

Thomas Peak 27 Working Stationer (??)
Cathrine Peak 26 <<<<< alternate name shown, see below
Mary Peak 8 b.ca 1843 (no place of birth given)
Ann Peak 5 b.ca 1846 (no place of birth shown)
Thomas Peake 1 b.ca 1850, London

Address:- Lilly Street


Name: Cathrine Peak
[Catherine Peak]
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England





I have to say that I was looking on the London records the other night for someone born and lived in Holborn .... but I couldn't find them. Otherwise I find them fascinating records. I only haveabout 2 people in any of my families who I have discovered married in London ......... but I'm finding a mother lode for other people!!




sylvia

Thanks Sylvia but I think I have put these on here before. The father is Thomas Peak born about 1822 and can be found on the 1851 census with his wife Cathrine and children, Ann, Mary Ann and Thomas. They cannot be found on the 1861 census and by the 1871 census Thomas Sr has died. Catherine can be tracked forwards easily as can Thomas jnr, his older sister Mary Ann and younger brother William. The problem I have is finding a marriage for Thomas and Catherine. I have baby Thomas's BC which states Catherine's maiden name is Sheering but still I can't find a marriage. I cannot find any of the children in the parish records either. According to the censuses the children were all born and lived in Holborn, North London area and parents were born in London.

Polly


why don't you put up their names and let us see if any of us can help you find them.



sylvia

Could they have anglicized their name.

Google Anglicized Jewish name

Thanks for that tip.

Would Jews be listed on the BMDregister.co.uk? I'll be totally gobsmacked if this line is Jewish but it's the only reason I can think of that might be why I can't find them.

the LMA records are fab.

If you go to quidco.com, register and then use the link to ancestry you will get 25% of the sub cost back.

Well, I just don't understand it, I must be doing something wrong? I have put in some names into the http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/ and none of them came up and yet I have certificates for a couple and others are listed on the BMD registers found on Ancestry.

Curiosity got the better of me and I have bought some credits to try and find more details of a particular family. Frustratingly I still can't get any further along than before. If I can't find a marriage or christenings does this just mean they were non-Christian?

Polly, agree with Christine and Janet they are good if you have London relations. I only upgraded last week and have found them invaluable, highly recommended.
Carol

Hi Polly
I only use the library edition of Ancestry -which is free-at the local library and family history. Regarding the London parish records, I have been adding my son in laws family tree onto ours and he has probably half his relatives from the London area. Whilst I haven't found all I have been looking for, the ones I have found , which are copies of the actual records are absolutely fantastic. No moans about poor transcriptions because all the details are as seen. As previously mentioned, it does save £7 each time a record is traced.-JLe