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Good morning.....just come back to this. I know it was late last night, but the names and dates for the other couple seem to have changed completely (apart from Mary's name).......or was I imagining thier birth years?
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Hi Reggie,
Janet's 08.02 am post today explains...
Janet, this 1881 entry is quite confused - his wife says she is from Manchester (unless it is just that the birth places of all the children have moved up one place).
One point is that there is a big gap between the 14 yr old and the 8 yr old - is the Mary Ann Clark the mother of the younger children only? Which birth certificate did you order?
Name: Thomas Myatt
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmm, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address: 105 Peel St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Engine Fitter Unemployed
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Myatt 45 b B'ham Wwk
Mary Ann Myatt 45 b Manchester Lancs
Jno. Thos. Myatt 20 b Crewe Ches
Jas.Edwd. Myatt 17 b Handsworth Staffs
Geo.Henry Myatt 14 b B'ham Wwk
Thos. H. Myatt 8 b B'ham Wwk
Mary A. Myatt 6 b B'ham Wwk
Clara Myatt 4 b B'ham Wwk
Leonard Myatt 3 b B'ham Wwk
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Ivy
The post explains the name change...........not the birth years
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- ahh, OK, yes, I hadn't been following this thread until this morning
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1871 for ref:
Name: Thomas Myatt
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary A
Gender: Male
Where born: Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 67
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Myatt 37 b Staffs
Mary A Myatt 37 b Wwk
Elizabeth Myatt 16 b Wwk
Mary J Myatt 12 b Ches
John L Myatt 10 b Lancs
James E Myatt 8 b Ches
George A Myatt 6 b Staffs
William Myatt 4 b Wwk
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This death may fit?
Name: Mary Ann Myatt
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Year of Registration: 1873
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 38
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 36
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Saw this one earlier.....and discounted it. Now it's back in the equation.........
Record
James Bartram 1874 Oct-Nov-Dec Tamworth Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire
>>>>>> Mary A Beck 1874 Oct-Nov-Dec Tamworth Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire
>>>>>> Thomas Myatt 1874 Oct-Nov-Dec Tamworth Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire
Sarah Withnall 1874 Oct-Nov-Dec Tamworth Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire
Would need to be cross-referenced............
Reg
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- hi Reggie, it does look a good fit, doesn't it?
I've just realised that I have looked at this family before - the thread is here:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1015661
It looks as if the birth certificate Janet has may be John Thomas', so the Cl*rk* would relate to the earlier wife.
Christine had the excellent idea of looking for Wyatt and Cl*rk* marriages, which came up with an 1854 match.
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Hello all! Want to say thanks for all your efforts. I am now totally confused so need to lie down in a dark corner for a bit before I look at all this! I do appreciate it though.
Jan x
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Hi Janet,
Yes, that's the way I feel with my family at times! (...and not just the dead ones...)
I think the first thing I would do is just check which child's birth certificate you have, and whether it is from the older or the younger group of children.
All the best
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OK then. I've had my lie down and now I'm ready to re-cap!
This family are confusing for 2 reasons I think: they moved around with Thomas' job, and there is some inconsistency with places of birth on the census reports. I have written a chart for the 3 main census reports (yes, sad I know), and I just think either Thomas and Mary or the census chap lost the plot! (They did eventually have 10 children so all can be forgiven for the confusion).
I'm intrigued by the idea that Thomas had 2 wives called Mary Ann who were the same age!! - the death and marriage records you found Reggie do seem a big co-incidence though don't they?? And it would explain the different places of birth too. You've gone to a lot of trouble, as has Ivy, and I thank you both.
Reggie - the 1881 census does show a gap of 6 years between George and Thomas, but in 1871 there was a child in between - William, born about 1867. I do not know what happened to him.
The birth cert I have is for Thomas Herbert born 1872. His mother is Mary Clark. To ascertain whether his father re-married I would need a later certificate. Our ancestor is actually his older brother George.
I still haven't found marriage to Mary Clark though!
I need to lie down in an even darker place now.
Jan x
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Hi Jan,
I suspect that for the 1881 census the enumerator became muddled, and left out the wife's birthplace. The places of birth all fall into place again if John is born in Manchester, James in Crewe, George in Handsworth/Staffs, and the rest in B'ham.
As you say, the birth in 1872 is before the death registration for 1873, so it is more likely to be a Clark(e) marriage entry that is being sought. I've had another look at that Wyatt/Clark marriage registration. It took place in Kings Norton, a registration district that spans parts of Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Staffordshire. If Mary and Thomas both came from there, it would explain why the county for their birthplace changes each census between Staffs and Wwks.
The details are:
Name: Mary Ann Clarke
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Kings Norton (To 1912)
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 690
The details of the marriage would have been written down several times. If they were married in church, the certificate would have been sent to the local register office, who would have copied out the details and forwarded them to the general register office. These would then have been copied again by hand into the national indexes which are visible as scanned images. If one of these transcribers misread Myatt as Wyatt, then Thomas' entry would have been indexed with the W's by the clerk at the GRO.
It might well be worth contacting the local office. The Kings Norton district was taken into the Birmingham district, and their contact details, together with helpful notes from their website are:
Holliday Wharf
Holliday Street
Birmingham
B1 1TJ
Telephone 0121 675 1000
Fax 0121 675 1050
Website
http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/registeroffice.bcc
"Why use Birmingham Register Office?
Where ever possible for family tree research, we will provide a digital scan of the original register entry. This means that you get an exact copy of the original registration and your ancestors signature or mark.
Certificates obtained from the General Register Office are prepared from copies written and sent by the Registrar, Vicar or Authorised Person, therefore they do not show original signatures.
We aim to post all requests for single certificates within 24 hours, it will take us a little longer if you request more certificates.
Use the links below to our on line application forms.
We have a resident Genealogist, John Yates, who is happy to answer any questions you may have about your family history research. Email him at [email protected] and mark for the attention of John Yates or give him a ring on 0121 675 2909.
Ordering Certificates
You pay only for the certificates we issue - we do not charge a search fee.
If you provide the year, quarter and reference details from the General Register Office Index, we will search for that specific entry.
If you do not specify an entry, we will do a five year search of our records, two years either side of the year you give. If we are unable to find the entry we will not be able to search for it again unless you provide additional information such as a GRO reference.
If we are unable to find an entry in our registers, we will refund your full fee. If you apply via our online application forms, we will not charge your debit or credit card until we have found the correct registration.
If we find a probable match in our registers, where only some of the information corresponds with the information supplied, we will contact you and obtain your agreement before issuing a certificate.
If you apply for more than one certificate and information from one is to be used to confirm that others are correct we will issue the first certificate to ensure you are satisfied before issuing others, this ensures you only purchase certificates relevant to your research.
If you require a search for more than five years, this is called a General Search, for which there are additional charges."
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Ivy, thanks so much. Someone else suggested Wyatt, and from what you've given me it seems a strong possibility. The Myatts were roughly Smethwick based, and since starting this I have found out to my amazement that it came under Kings Norton at this time! (You seem to know this area, yes?).
I appreciate the info about B'ham resistration, and shall definitely contact them.
With my thanks.
Jan
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