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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 16:24 |
Dear Genes Reuniters,
I am at a loss at the moment in trying to find a family. Here's the family in1881.
1881 England Census about Richard Mitcheson Name: Richard Mitcheson Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Gender: Male Where born: Laithes, Cumberland, England Civil Parish: Wetheral County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Street address: Cote Hill Condition as to marriage: Married Education:
Employment status: Subscribe now to see this information. Occupation: Platelayer (Railway) Registration district: Carlisle Sub-registration district: Wetheral ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Isaac Little 45 Mary Mitcheson 11 Mary Ann Mitcheson 43 Richard Mitcheson 35 Robert Mitcheson 14 Isaac Little is my great grandfather's oldest brother. He was born in 1835 In Wetheral, Cumberland England, son of Robert and Annie (Henderson) Little. I have been able to trace Isaac up to his death in 1900.
What I am trying to do is to confirm whether Mary Ann Mitcheson, wife of Richard Mitcheson is the sister to Isaac and my great grandfather, Thomas Little. According to the 1881 census, her place of birth and year is close to that of Mary Ann Little, who by the way was not living with her widowed mother Ann and other siblings in 1861.
My problem is I for the life of me can not find Richard and/or Mary anywhere--1891, 1901 census, a marriage record. It appears that they just vanished off the continent of England.
I was able to find several possible birth records for the children; Robert and Mary Mitcheson. Although the 1881 census stated the place of birth for Robert was Cotehill, Cumberland, the only birth records I could find for a Robert Mitcheson around 1867 were in Northumberland (I know this can happen, it happens a lot). On the actual census it states Mary's place of birth as Prudhoe, Northumberland--what district is that in?
I'm open to any suggestions or another pair of eyes on this...there might be just something I'm not seeing.
Thank you.
Joan
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 16:30 |
How is Isaac described in 1881? What relation is he to the head of the household?
Reg
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 16:35 |
OK..I've checked..
He is a Lodger, birthplace Stand End Cumberland
The marriage cert for Robert and Mary Ann will have her father's name and occupation...........cross-refer it with Isaac's father's details.
Do you know for certain that Isaac is Thomas's brother?
On second reading........do I take it that you don't know the maiden name of Mary Ann Mitcheson?
Reg
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 16:37 |
HI Reggie,
As a lodger, farm laborer (the Little family were all farmers until Robert and Annie died. My great grandfather, Thomas, immigrated to the States and his younger siblings went to mostly to Northumberland (mining).
Isaac's sister Mary Ann was born in 1837 at Wetheral Pasture (Cotehill). She was residing with her parents in 1851. There was a possible record for her in 1861 as a domestic servant and then I lost the trail.
My thought was to at least rule this family out before I embark on a series of requests for certificates. It's possible that they may be there but the last name being spelled incorrectly--I've tried several different ways but not luck.
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 16:41 |
Reggie,
I tried to find the marriage record for Richard and Mary A. Mitcheson but couldn't find one to confirm Mary's maiden name. Yes, Isaac is Thomas' brother--there were 10 known children in the Little family. I have been able to find most the children but Mary Ann and her younger sister Elizabeth (b. 1839 Cotehill Upper).
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 16:43 |
1841...........
Name: Isaac Little Age: 5 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836 Gender: Male Where born: Cumberland, England Civil Parish: Wetheral Hundred: Cumberland County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Registration district: Carlisle Sub-registration district: Wetheral Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Ann Little 30 Elizabeth Little 2 Isaac Little 5 Mary Little 4 Robert Little 25
1851.............
Name: Mary Ann Little Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Robert Mother's Name: Ann Gender: Female Where born: Wetheral, Cumberland, England Civil Parish: Petteril Crooks County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Registration district: Penrith Sub-registration district: Greystoke ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 52 Household Members: Name Age Ann Little 40 David Little 7 Elizth Little 11 Margt Little 3 Mary Ann Little 13 Robert Little 35 Robert Little 5 Thomas Little 9 William Little 1
1861.............
Name: Isaac Little Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836 Relation: Son Mother's Name: Ann Gender: Male Where born: Wetheral, Cumberland, England Civil Parish: Wetheral County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Registration district: Carlisle Sub-registration district: Wetheral ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 58 Household Members: Name Age Ann Little 51 Isaac Little 25 John Little 8 Joseph Little 6 Margaret Little 12 Robert Little 14 William Little 10 Reg
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 16:47 |
Reg,
Thank you, I have all that information (been researching this family for over 17 years). I'm trying to find information on the Mitcheson family to find out whether or not Mary Ann Mitchenson is Mary Ann Little.
This may be Mary, the daughter of Richard and Mary Mitcheson. Would you suggest that I try to follow that paper trail?
Joan
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 16:48 |
Richard etc in 1871
Name: Richard Mitchinson Age: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary A Gender: Male Where born: Layther, Cumberland, England Civil Parish: Wavertree Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity Town: Wavertree County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View Image Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: Wavertree ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 77 Household Members: Name Age Mary Mitchinson 1 Mary A Mitchinson 31 Richard Mitchinson 27 Robert Mitchinson 4 James Surgeon 14 STEPSON Reg
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 16:48 |
Would help if I had pasted the census in.
1891 England Census about Mary Mitcheson Name: Mary Mitcheson Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Newcastle, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Heap Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Whittle County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image Registration district: Bury Sub-registration district: Heywood ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Mary E Brearley 27 Cecil Walker Brennand 7 John Brennand 35 John Gimmens Brennand 2 Katherine M E Brennand 28 Kathleen Nora Brennand 5 Margaret Nadine Brennand 3 Violet Inez Brennand 8/12 Elizabeth Clubbe 28 Ellen Clubbe 26 Elizabeth Jones 29 Mary Mitcheson 21
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 16:50 |
1861........James with mother and her family
Name: James Surgeon Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858 Relation: Grandson Gender: Male Where born: Wetheral, Cumberland, England Civil Parish: Wetheral County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Registration district: Carlisle Sub-registration district: Wetheral ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 7 Household Members: Name Age James Surgeon 3 Mary Ann Surgeon 25 Nathan Surgeon 52 Nathan Surgeon 14 Robert Surgeon 24 Reg
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 16:51 |
Reggie,
You're a Godsend...I tried that variant of the last name and it didn't come up in Ancestry. Thank you. I think Ancestry is having some problems because this has happened to me on numerous occasions in trying to look up information for others on this site.
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 16:54 |
It appears that Mary was married before to Robert Surgeon. I'll go and look and see if I can find a marriage record for Robert Surgeon.
thank you again Reggie. For some reason, I would not have found that 1871 census record.
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 16:55 |
Final proof...........
Richard Mitchinson 1869 Jan-Feb-Mar Carlisle Cumbria, Cumberland
Mary Ann Surgeon 1869 Jan-Feb-Mar Carlisle Cumbria, Cumberland
Reg
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 16:56 |
This is very weird when I did a search for Robert Surgeon and Mary in Cumberland on BMD Index, this is the only record that came up.
Marriages Mar 1909 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HODGSON William John Carlisle 10b 788 RITCHIE Mary Little Carlisle 10b 788 SURGEON Robert Arthur Carlisle 10b 788 WARD Margaret Carlisle 10b 788
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 16:58 |
Joan
You have jumped to an erroneous conclusion
Mary Ann Surgeon was not married when she had James
That is her maiden name..............
Reg
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 17:05 |
Reggie, my mistake should have looked at the actual record prior to assuming that Robert Surgeon was the husband and not brother.
But it was weird that the marriage record in 1909 for a Robert Surgeon also had the name Mary Little Ritchie too--funny!
So, this rules out that Mary Mitcheson was Mary Ann Surgeon--not "Little". This is one marriage certificate that I don't have to obtain.
Again, many thanks Reggie for all your help. I knew I needed another pair of eyes.
Have a great day!
Joan
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 17:10 |
Glad to have helped....although not with the outcome for which you had hoped!
Reg
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ErikaH
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28 Jan 2008 17:13 |
1861.........?????
Name: Mary Ann Little Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Wetheral, Cumberland, England Civil Parish: Castle Sowerby Ecclesiastical parish: Castle Sowerby Town: Southernby Bound County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Registration district: Penrith Sub-registration district: Greystoke ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 48 Household Members: Name Age Jane Elliot 48 Jane Elliot 18 Mary Ann Little 23 Reg
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Joan
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28 Jan 2008 17:42 |
That was the census I was looking at as well but didn't find anything that was close in 1871. This is why I think she may have married (I know she also could have died but I tend to look at marriages first).
My family did not have documentation handed down so I have had to acquire information from wonderful people at the Cumbria Archives and corresponding with other Little researchers. I'm trying to put together a book on this family for my father but missing a few pieces of the puzzle.
Again, many thanks for all your time and help. Although it wasn't the outcome I wanted, it now eliminates one marriage record.
Joan
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Marilyn
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10 Apr 2013 17:33 |
I think that Mary Ann Surgeon my great grandmother born Prudhoe (registration district Hexham Northumberland is the Mary Mitchinson you are looking for ..she married Richard Mirtchinson in 1869 She was the daughter of Nathan Surgeon Richard died in 1893 and Mary Ann died in 1915 regards M.
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