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Hi, I'm researching my ex-husband's family and am interested in finding any information on descendents of Joseph Hughes (born in Hereford) and Annie Smith (born in Belper, Derbys). I have little detail to date beyond an excerpt from a journal written by one of their sons (Joseph Hughes - born 25 March 1883). Joseph Hughes (Senior) worked at the Theatre Royal in Edinburgh in the late 1880s - early 1890s, moving to Nottingham in 1895 where he worked for the Bill Posting Company at the Theatre Royal as a poster writer and subsequently toured around Great Britain with plays such as 'Lady Stacey' and 'Span of Life'. The children of Joseph and Annie Smith are as follows: Frank (died 1880) Nellie - born 1881 Joseph - born 25 March 1883 Harry - born 1886 Albert - born 1888 Charlie - (my ex husband's grandfather) - born 1890 Sally - born 1892 Kitty - born 1894 (died as an infant - buried in Nottingham Cemetry) Tommy - (probably named Thomas) born 1895. The children spent some of their childhood living in Cottage Homes after Joseph and Annie separated. The childrens homes were in Radford, Nottingham; Lazackerley (?); Boys Working Home, Wesley or Wesleyan. Annie set up home in Ashton-Under Lyne while Joseph was still travelling with the theatre company until the family unit eventually broke up and the children were sent to live with relatives in Manchester or to one of the childrens' homes. I have a little more information but won't overload the message board with it.. If you have any information or think you may be descendant from the same family i'd love to hear from you. Thanks in advance Kath

Hi Kath I have just been searching the web as I have just started on the ancestry journey. I came across your question from 2006. Based on previous research my brother has done and the details you have provided. It would seem that I am the grandson of Albert Hughes and great grandson of Joseph Hughes. Where we differ is that Joseph was actually born in Edinburgh if it is indeed the same ancestor! I have just embarked on the journey. Happy to share information if you are indeed still on the site! Kind Regards Graham Hughes

Welcome to Genes and the boards.

Unfortunately Kath is no longer a member of Genes.

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Ancestry's transcriptions of 1881 and 1891 censuses say that Joseph senior was born in Liverpool:

Joseph Hughes
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name Joseph Hughes
Age 37
Estimated Birth Year abt 1854
Relationship Head
Spouse's Name Annie Hughes
Gender Male
Where born Liverpool, Lancashire
Registration Number 685/2
Registration district St Andrew
Civil parish Edinburgh St Cuthberts
County Midlothian
Address 4 Little King Street
Occupation Advertising Agent
ED 51
Household schedule number 103
Line 1
Roll CSSCT1891_342
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Joseph Hughes 37 Head
Annie Hughes 32 Wife
Nellie Hughes 9 Daur (Daughter)
Joseph Hughes 8 Son
Harry Hughes 7 Son
Albert Hughes 5 Son
Charles Hughes 3 Son
Thomas Hughes 8 Mos
William McKay 28 Lodger
Alfred S Kidson 24 Lodger
John Simpson 26 Lodger
William S Ross 22 Lodger



Joseph Hughes
in the 1881 England Census
Name Joseph Hughes
Age 26
Estimated Birth Year abt 1855
Relationship to Head Head
Spouse Annie Hughes
Gender Male
Where born Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Derby St Werburgh
County/Island Derbyshire
Country England
Street Address 239 Abbey St
Marital Status Married
Occupation Bill Poster
Registration district Derby
ED, institution, or vessel 39
Neighbors
Piece 3401
Folio 16
Page number 26
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Joseph Hughes 26 Head
Annie Hughes 21 Wife
Francis Hughes Son 7 months


Deaths Jun 1881 (>99%)
HUGHES Francis William 0 Derby 7b 293

FMP transcribers see 1891 differently - image can be viewed on SP - at a price

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
4, Little King Street, St Cuthbert, St Andrew, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Joseph Hughes Head Married Male 37 1854 Advertising agent Liberton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Annie Hughes Wife Married Female 32 1859 - -
Nellie Hughes Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
Joseph Hughes Son - Male 8 1883 Scholar England
Harry Hughes Son - Male 7 1884 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
Albert Hughes Son - Male 5 1886 Scholar Midlothian, Scotland
Charles Hughes Son - Male 3 1888 - Midlothian, Scotland
Thomas Hughes - - Male 0 1891 - Midlothian, Scotland

Only one Joseph Hughes birth with MMN Smith in 1883

HUGHES, JOSEPH SMITH
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 436

???

HUGHES, FRANCIS WILLIAM SMITH
GRO Reference: 1880 D Quarter in DERBY Volume 07B Page 477

Marriage

First name(s) Joseph
Last name Hughes
Birth year 1854
Age 25
Spouse's first name Annie
Spouse's last name Smith
Spouse's name as transcribed Smith Annie
Marriage year 1879
Father's name Peter Hughes**********************
Marriage date 10 Dec 1879
Father's occupation Insurance Agent
Marital status Widow(er)****************************************************
By banns or licence Banns
Occupation Bill poster
Signed Signed
Residence Nottingham Road
Witnesses William Turner/Harriett Grimley
Denomination Anglican
Record set Derbyshire Marriages
Dedication St Paul
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

HUGHES
ALBERT FREDERIC
SMITH
M
1886
685 / 2 / 373
St Andrew (Edinburgh)

HUGHES
CHARLES
SMITH
M
1888
685 / 2 / 124
St Andrew (Edinburgh)

HUGHES
THOMAS WILLIAM
SMITH
M
1890
685 / 2 / 847
St Andrew (Edinburgh)

HUGHES
SARAH
SMITH
F
1892
685 / 2 / 1095
St Andrew (Edinburgh)

HUGHES, HARRY SMITH
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 196

HUGHES, NELLIE SMITH
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in PRESTWICH Volume 08D Page 376

Purely for INFO

??Lazackerley, will be Fazackerley - a district of Liverpool

Re Joseph senior's birthplace as transcribed by FMP -

Liberton is in Midlothian, not Lanarkshire.
It's a suburb of Edinburgh nowadays.

SP's not letting me log in at the moment, so I can't check the 1891 original.

However, there's no sign of Joseph with father Peter , an insurance agent (per Joseph & Annie's marriage cert) in Scotland in 1861 or 1871.
Nor in England or Wales either, for that matter, as far as I can see.


ADDED:
Have now checked the 1891 census original, and it definitely says "Lancashire, Liverpool" for Joseph senior's birthplace.

Annie: Belper, Derbyshire.
Nellie and Harry - Manchester.
Joseph junior - Sheffield
Albert, Charles and Thomas - Edinburgh.

I suspected FMP was a figment of the transcriber’s imagination - as I’m familiar with the ‘real’ Liberton ;-) ;-)

Wow how impressive! Thank you all I cant believe the responses. I will go through them in detail and cross reference. Based on previous research my brother has done we believe Joseph Senior was not born in Hereford but in Liverpool in 1854. We understand he was originally a bill poster and then theatrical agent and travelled the country with the theatre shows. He lived in Edinburgh for a time where my grandfather Albert Frederick was born in 1886. We understand that Joseph Seniors father was a Henry Hughes born in c1811 in Liverpool, with a wife named Elizabeth born c1814. My brother was unable to go any further back. So thats the journey I'm on to try and flesh out more details and go further back than Henry if possible. Again thanks for all your input!

As shown above, Joseph senior's father's name was Peter, if the information given on his marriage to Annie was correct.

This is the Henry Hughes you mention:

Henry Hughes
in the 1861 England Census
Name Henry Hughes
Gender Male
Age 50
Relation Head
Estimated Birth Year 1811
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Hughes
Where born Liverpool
Civil parish Everton
Ecclesiastical parish St Chrysostom
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration district West Derby
Sub-registration district Everton
ED, institution, or vessel 24
Neighbors
Household schedule number 194
Piece 2713
Folio 93
Page number 35
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Henry Hughes 50 Head
Elizabeth Hughes 48 Wife
William Hughes 28 Son
Thomas Hughes 15 Son
Isaac Hughes 13 Son
Elizabeth Hughes 10 Daughter
Joseph Inhernan Hughes 6 Son


This is the birth of his son Joseph:

HUGHES, JOSEPH INKERMAN mmn GILL
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 407


The family in 1871:

Joseph Highers
in the 1871 England Census
Name Joseph Highers [Hughes
Age 16
Estimated Birth Year 1855
Relation Son
Gender Male
Where born Kirkdale, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish St Mary
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration district West Derby
Sub-registration district Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel 98
Household schedule number 190
Piece 3826
Folio 24
Page number 41
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Henry Highers 60 Head
Elizabeth Highers 58 Wife
John Highers 21 Son
David Highers 19 Son
Joseph Highers 16 Son - a paver
Henry Highers 14 Son


I don't see him definitely after that. It's quite a common name.

He is NOT the man in Kirkdale in 1891 with wife Elizabeth Jane (nee Pye), and daughters Elizabeth, Ellen Alice, and May.
That man's father was Benjamin, per the marriage record.

As pointed out by AG, the marriage record I posted shows that Joseph claimed his father's name was PETER.

As no records of this alleged person have yet been found, you may have to consider that Joseph was illegitimate.

Also..........did you take note that Joseph said he was a WIDOWER?

Thanks ErikaH. I am confused as to why Joseph Senior would list his fathers name as Peter. We are pretty Confident it is Henry Hughes from Liverpool as shown in other replies in the trail and my brothers research. Henrys occupation was listed in the 1851 Census as a labourer. Henry's family had fallen on hard times. Perhaps he was ashamed of his parentage and invented 'Peter the Insurance Agent'. Joseph was moving up in the world as a theatre bill poster! Just speculation ;)
Again thanks for the interest everyone.
Question - is it possible to trace Henry Hughes before the Census of 1851?

IF Joseph Inkerman Hughes (son of Henry) is your Joseph - he was a paver (roadman) in 1871

I suppose it's not impossible that he could have become a bill poster by 1879.

Henry Hughes
in the 1851 England Census
Name Henry Hughes
Age 42
Estimated Birth Year abt 1809
Relation Head
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Hughes
Gender Male
Where born Barton, Cheshire, England
Civil parish West Derby
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration district West Derby
Sub-registration district West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel 1c
Neighbors
Household schedule number 188
Piece 2192
Folio 102
Page number 44
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Henry Hughes 42 Head
Elizabeth Hughes 39 Wife
William Hughes 18 Son
Henry Hughes 12 Son
Thomas Hughes 5 Son
Isaac Hughes 3 Son
Elizabeth Hughes 9 Mo Daughter


Son William's christening in 1832. At that time they were living in Villiers Street, and Henry was a warehouseman:

.William Hughes
in the Lancashire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Name William Hughes
Baptism Date 26 Dec 1832
Parish Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Father Henry Hughes
Mother Elizabeth Hughes
Register Type Bishop's Transcripts
Reference Number Drl/2/292



In 1838 they were at Shaw Hill, and Henry was still a warehouseman:

Henry Hughes
in the Liverpool, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1919
Name Henry Hughes
Baptism Date 11 Nov 1838
Baptism Place Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears Liverpool, St Peter
Father Henry Hughes
Mother Elizabeth Hughes


I don't see the family in 1841.

Many thanks ArgyllGran that is the furthest back record we have to date! Really appreciate that. So I have discovered from you that Henry Hughes was born in Barton Cheshire in 1811. That is a new fact that we didnt know. I wonder if there is a way to find a record of his marriage to Elizabeth which would have taken place around 1830. Many thanks again! :-)

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Holborn Street, West Derby, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Hughes Head Married Male 42 1809 Warehouse man superintendent Burton, Cheshire, England
Elizabeth Hughes Wife Married Female 39 1812 - Croglin, Cumberland, England
William Hughes Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Office boy Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Henry Hughes Son - Male 12 1839 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Hughes Son - Male 5 1846 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Isaac Hughes Son - Male 3 1848 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hughes Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Elizabeth is aged 9 months

-----------------
So is this the family in 1841 - at Shaw Hill which would go with the address at the time of Henry's baptism

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Shaw Hill Street, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Henry Hughes Male 30 1811 - Labourer
William Hughes Male 8 1833 -
Henry Hughes Male 3 1838 -
Elizabeth Hughes Female 28 1813 -
Mary Ann Hughes Female 0 1841 -

??

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
HUGHES, JOSEPH INKERMAN GILL
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 407

HUGHES, ELIZABETH GILL
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20

HUGHES, ISAAC GILL
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 429

HUGHES, THOMAS GILL
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 447


?? Banns
Lancashire Banns & Marriages
Liverpool, St George, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Henry
Last name Hughes
Residence St George, Liverpool
Year 1831
Banns year 1831
Banns date 25 Sep 1831
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Gill
Spouse's residence St George Liverpool
Marriage year 1831
Marriage date 16 Oct 1831
Description St George
Place Liverpool, St George
Denomination Church Of England
Archive Liverpool Record Office
Archive reference 283-GEO-5-1
Register year range 1825-1877
Register type Banns
Record set Lancashire Banns & Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Diocese Liverpool
Collections from England, Great Britain
County Lancashire
Country England

From original - - read 25 Sept, 2 & 9th October.
Henry of Villars Street ????? Labourer
Elizabeth of ? Bold Street ???? Spinster

Villars Street - address 1832 baptism of son William

????? - unable to decipher meaning - but see the Lancsopc record, Henry resident 15 months and Elizabeth 9 months

=====================
?? MARRIAGE
Lancashire Banns & Marriages
Liverpool, St George, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Henry
Last name Hughes
Occupation Labourer
Residence Liverpool
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth
Spouse's last name Gill
Spouse's marital status Spinster
Spouse's residence Liverpool
Year 1831
Marriage year 1831
Marriage date 17 Oct 1831
Description St George
Place Liverpool, St George
Diocese Liverpool
Witness 1 Elizabeth Kneil
Witness 2 James Ireland
Liverpool Record Office
By licence or banns Banns
Denomination Church Of England
Archive reference 283-GEO-3-3
Register year range 1813-1837
Register type Marriages
Record set Lancashire Banns & Marriages
County Lancashire
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Country England
Subcategory Parish Marriages