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i'll have to check that Flip,got Thomas's birth certificate.I have a theory-but aren't certain.I have a little evidence that the McCafferys came from Springburn,Glasgow (1861 census) 1911 census says Thomas was born in Greenock-entirely different to the 1881,1891 & 1901 censuses? Sarah too gives different POBS,DOBS.I also THINK that the McCafferys were,originally,from Ireland (1861 census)? POSSIBLY called McCafferty ??? (loads of different spellings noticed).I have read an article on line which states that the Irish -in particular,the Catholics,couldn't get jobs (or housing) in Scotland & SOME changed their names? McCafferty (Irish sounding surname?) changed (slightly) to McCaffery? (more Scottish sounding?) I've noticed that neither Thomas or Sarah could read or write? So,maybe they've just simplified things?I have them both from 1874 in Barrow-& working,which would suggest no problems with finding employment or housing? They have moved addresses a number of times between censuses,so maybe you're right? But,as streets are only a 'stones throw' away from each other? (Carlisle Street,Thwaite Street,Robert Street,Arthur Street,Marsh Street,Sutherland Street).I guess we'll never be 100% certain?
Many thanks for all your help everyone :)

Dodging rent collectors maybe? Had they moved address between birth of Thomas and the 1881 census?

Lots of people did moon-light flits!

I have absolutely no idea why/how the name change occurred? My great grandfather was definitely born Thomas McCaffery in 1880,but by March 1881 (census) they'd ALL become CARR ?

Made a mistake,On her marriage certificate,she was living at 14,Arthur Street,Barrow-in-Furness-not 7,Carlisle Street.Her father-Patrick ,was deceased.He was a labourer.She is given as age 19-which doesn't appear to be true,she's a spinster.She is also illiterate,signing the certificate with an X.On marriage certificate he was living at 4,William Street,Barrow-in-Furness.He is given as age 19-which wasn't apparently true?He's a labourer.His father is given as Thomas McCaffery,a labourer.He's a bachelor.*there are a number of alterations/corrections/misspelling on the certificate with the surname McCaffery.Witnesses were Ann McCaffery & Charles Doon.

Thomas McCafferys father is given as Thomas on marriage certificate of Thomas (Junior) to Sarah Holden

Austin-Elizabeth is definitely correct<Margaret is definitely correct too.Sarahs death is also correct.

Maddie-Margaret is their daughter,born 1889.

They married in St.Marys Church (Catholic),Duke Street,Barrow-in-Furness.

Potty-I remember Sarahs address from the marriage certificate-it was 7,Carlisle Street,Barrow-in-Furness.Thomas's was 4,William Street,Barrow-in-Furness

WOW guys,thank you for all your help.I'm at work at present,bujt will have a good look when I get home & give everyone an update.CHEERS.

Sorry, was Elizabeth (1884) that gave mmn Holding on Cumbria bmd

Not seeing the mmn Holding? Holden on the GRO index:

CARR, MARGARET HOLDEN Order
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS Volume 08E Page 835


Possible death for Sarah:

First name(s) SARAH
Last name CARR
Gender Female
Birth year 1862
Age 46
Death quarter 4
Death year 1908
District BARROW IN FURNESS
County Lancashire
Volume 8E Page 560

The birth Maddie has posted for Margaret has a mmn of Holding, so another variation on the surname.

All the children (apart from Mary Ann who died) appear to have married in Barrow, so where are the deaths for the parents?

Sorry - had to rush off to do lunch !!

Possibly the right marriage then but probably the wrong wife !

This could be the Patrick who is an iron ore miner?


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
142, Forge Row, Long Benton, Tynemouth, Northumberland, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Campbell Head Married Male 49 1802 Weigher Of Iron Scotland
Transcription
Catherine Campbell Wife Married Female 42 1809 - Scotland
Transcription
Malcom Campbell Son Unmarried Male 17 1834 Puddler Iron Scotland
Transcription
Neil Campbell Son Unmarried Male 11 1840 Scholar Walker, Northumberland, England
Transcription
Maryann Campbell Daughter - Female 9 1842 Scholar Walker, Northumberland, England
Transcription
Patrick Holdon Lodger Unmarried Male 30 1821 Labourer Iron Works Ireland
Transcription
Kenneth McInnes Lodger Unmarried Male 31 1820 Labourer Chemical Works Scotland

Dea x

is this the daughter

MARGARET
Last name CARR
Birth year 1889
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District BARROW IN FURNESS
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8E
Page 835
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain

© brightsolid online publishing ltd

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

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First name(s) MARGARET
Last name CARR
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1918
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ MARGARET CARR married
GEORGE MCCARTNEY
Spouse's last name MCCARTNEY
District BARROW IN FURNESS
District number -
County Lancashire
Country England
Volume 8E
Page 1338
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

Margaret McCartney

in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Margaret McCartney
Birth Date: abt 1890
Date of Registration: Sep 1964
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Barrow-in-Furness
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10b
Page: 154

birth cert will give parents names

Dea, that birth is a year after the marriage?

Paul, could you post further details from the marriage cert - father's occupations, addresses, witnesses, where married?

(can see below)

Chris :)

08 August 1857 - Carlisle Patriot - Carlisle, Cumbria, England

Marriage
July 29th, at the Registrar's Office. Whitehaven, Mr. Patrick Holden, of Cleator Moor, to Miss Ann Mc.Donald, of Egremont;


03 June 1858 - Whitehaven News - Whitehaven, Cumbria, England

Patrick Holden, was charged with being drunk, and was fined 5s. and costs.


Edits (also another Marriage notice, gives Patrick Holden, iron ore miner)

This looks a likely marriage for Patrick??

Marriages Sep 1857 (>99%) ???????????
Holden Patrick Whitehaven 10b 614 Scan available - click to view
Kay William Whitehaven 10b 614 Scan available - click to view
McDonald Ann Whitehaven 10b 614 Scan available - click to view
Nicholson Elizabeth Whitehaven 10b 614 Scan available - click to view


And a birth for Sarah before they married?

NICHOLSON, SARAH ANN NICHOLSON Order
GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in BOOTLE, CUMBERLAND 572 Volume 10B Page 507

Bootle Reg district covers Millom !

Dea x

Could either of these be the connection - born before they were married?


Births Mar 1857 (>99%)

McDonald Sarah Whitehaven 10b 495 Scan available - click to view

Births Dec 1856 (>99%)

Nicholson Sarah Whitehaven 10b 473 Scan available - click to view

Just can't find them on the census to see who Patrick married

Added: forget this both are showing with different mmn on gro index.

Interestingly there is a marriage for a Patrick Holden in Whitehaven (the birthplace Sarah gives in 1891), although not seeing a connection yet:

Marriages Sep 1857 (>99%)
Holden Patrick Whitehaven 10b 614
Kay William Whitehaven 10b 614
McDonald Ann Whitehaven 10b 614
Nicholson Elizabeth Whitehaven 10b 614