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AG - rather than a ships crew list it is the individuals booklet that I have seen.

Interesting that the record state Military. He could have been part of the Guernsey Militia but I don’t know if they had their own ships. Annoying he never states which Bailiwick he was born in.

Added: no not militi ships as as they were island based. As Ireland keeps popping up I wonder if John/James' father was in the British Army who then moved back to Ireland, either with the army or not. It could explain why we can't pick him up on the 1851 census.

No, I couldn't find him in 1851 either.

In 1861 he might have been at sea.


Found this:

James Harvey
Military • Ireland, Merchant Navy Crew Lists, 1857-1922
Name James Harvey
Age 25 years
Birth Date 1847
Birthplace Guernsey
Event Type Military Service
Event Date 1872
Event Place Ireland
Record Type Crew List
Source Description R.G.S.S Shipping Agreements & Crew Lists 14081-16259
Series Name 1872 Ship nos. 14647 (cont.)-18440
Affiliate Name National Archives of Ireland

No image to see online

Presumably still no luck finding the discharge book for Marchand navy seamen. Such a shame as this should have given the place and date of birth. It is completed on joining and leaving each ship and often contains a photo.

I know people have come across these, but don’t know which site.

I’ve had another look on the earlier census but can find no trace.

Liverpool, This Day.—The steamer Chrysolite” has arrived. She left Pernambuco on the 13lh December, and Vincent on tho 23rd. The royal mail steamer ‘-Seine” was not at St Vincent when the “Chrysolite” left. She experienced dreadful weather.
Published: Tuesday 07 January 1868
Newspaper: Dublin Evening Post
County: Dublin, Republic of Ireland



LIVERPOOL, Tomdit [Today ?] . The "Chrysolite" has arrived in the Mersey from Pernambuco, with 15 days’ later dates than last sail. She has political or war news of interest from Brazil. She experienced very heavy weather, and after leaving St. Vincent the 15th ult. to lay to 28 hours. The "Seine" had not arrived St. Vincent when the Chrysolite left
Published: Tuesday 07 January 1868
Newspaper: Shipping and Mercantile Gazette
County: London, England

Similar reports in other papers.

Before James was on the Augustine, he was on the Ambrose for more than one voyage.

As he was on the Ambrose around 1869-1870, I think she must be this one:

https://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/A-Ships/ambrose1861.html


In 1868 he was AB on the Fire Queen, having previously been on the Chrysolite.
In April 1869 he was AB on the Ambrose, having previously been on the Pacific.
In May 1869 he was again on the Ambrose, but as Bosun.
1870, Ambrose again, as Bosun.
1871, ditto. (twice).
Later 1871, Augustine as Bosun, following a voyage on the Ambrose.

Have you read the National Archives guide to the crew lists & musters
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-navy-ships-records-crew-lists-musters-and-log-books/

added: the MV Augustine could have been a steamer of the Booth line from Merseyside. I bleieve their may be a Liverpool Maritim museum or you could try the Liverpol records office

Thank you :-)

If you haven’t found it on FS the probably the only way is to contact the Priaulx Library ( where the records are kept ) and pay for a search.

If he is a Guernsey native records will be in French, if he is English then the record should be on English.

The census on Guernsey is part of the UK census so he should be found on the 1850 onwards.

Added: paying for a search could be expensive, if memory serves me correct then each Bailiwick is indexed seperately.

James/John James Harvey born abt 1847 in Guernsey. Anywhere online I might look for his birth record?

Thanks again....much appreciated :-)

It's possible - though no record of it on irishgenealogy.ie - not that that means much.

1871 census says that Alice also was born in Ireland, but later censuses say Liverpool.
I don't see any obvious sign of either - but who knows?!

The daughter Edith W Harvey on the 1891 census is a mystery. Where is she in 1881?


And the middle initial K for Alice junior in 1891 should be R, if the birth I posted earlier is the right one.


James Harvey
in the 1891 England Census
Name James Harvey
Gender Male
Age 42
Relationship Head
Birth Year 1849
Spouse
Johanna Harvey
Mary Harvey
Child
Elizabeth Harvey
Thomas Harvey
Alice K Harvey
Edith W Harvey

Birth Place Southampton
Civil parish Toxteth Park
Residence Place Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England
Registration district Toxteth Park
Sub registration district Toxteth Park
ED, Institution or Vessel 43
Neighbors
Piece 2931
Folio 98
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
James Harvey 42 Head
Johanna Harvey 40 Wife - Ireland
Elizabeth Harvey 20 Daughter - Liverpool
Thomas Harvey 18 Son - Liverpool
Alice K Harvey 16 Daughter - Liverpool
Edith W Harvey 14 Daughter - Liverpool

FMP result- I am aware ArgyllGran posted this earlier at 29 May 2024 18:26
I didn't see an Irish reference on her post

Could they have married in Ireland, hence the lack of marriage evidence??

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
12, Paulton Street, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England

John James Harvey Head Married Male 59 1842 Dock labourer Guernsey, Channel Islands
Johnna Harvey Wife Married Female 57 1844 - Ireland ***********
Alice Harvey Daughter Single Female 24 1877 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
+ Boarders

AG what do you think??

I suspect it's more likely Johanna travelled to Liverpool from Ireland and met J.J in Liverpool

That's great, thank you :-D

CLIP's-records of British merchant seafarers of the late 19th and early 20th century.

If you would like to have a look at the record/ship ArgyllGran referred to at 29 May 2024 18:49

You can find out about the ship and crew, here:

https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum?officialnumber=54916

Thank you

Alice and eldest daughter Elizabeth in 1871:

Alice Harvey
in the 1871 England Census
Name Alice Harvey
Age 23
Estimated Birth Year 1848
Relation Lodger
Gender Female
Where born Ireland
Civil parish Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish St Mathew
Town Liverpool
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration district West Derby
Sub-registration district Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel 13
Household schedule number 209
Piece 3795
Folio 107
Page number 47
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
John Hunter 29 Head
Julia Lankel 22 Niece
Harriett Lindsey 14
Phillip Smith 49 Lodger
Alice Harvey 23 Lodger, married, servant
Elizabeth Harvey 1/12 Lodger

(and other fellow lodgers)

Thank you very much

There are several travel records (1868-71) for this man, born 1845-47:

James Harvey
in the Liverpool, England, Crew Lists 1861-1919
Name James Harvey
Age 24
Birth Year abt 1847
Birth Place Guernsey
Event Date 1871
Port of Registry Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name Augustine
Official Number 54916
Reference Number 387CRE/84

In 1871, he was on various crew lists from Feb to May - so missed being on the census, which was on 2 April.


EDIT:
He was previously on the Ambrose, then on the Augustine

So 42 not 52? Have you found his death, which might give a better indication of when he was born.

I do think his seaman’s record is important but I am not a expert on the merchant marine.

Edit: we crossed. The estimated dates are a. It of a wide range. I did look at the 1850 census but didn’t spot him on that.

His death and burial ?? He's lost a few years in age:

John James Harvey
in the England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2022
Name John James Harvey
Age 58
Record Type Burial
Birth Date abt 1849
Death Date abt 1907
Burial Date 17 Feb 1907
Burial Place Merseyside, England
Cemetery Toxteth Park Cemetery
Cemetery Section Church of England



John James Harvey
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name John James Harvey
Age 58
Estimated Birth Year abt 1849
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Death Registration Place Toxteth Park, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Death Date Mar 1907
Inferred Death Place Lancashire, United Kingdom
Volume 8b
Page 133


Probably Johanna's death :

Deaths Dec 1901 (>99%)
Harvey Johanna 54 Toxteth Park 8b 133