Find Ancestors

Update

I was thrilled today to receive a reply to my email from London Metropolitan Archives.

They gave me instructions on how to view the whole Order of Removal for Elizabeth Jane Carter.

It was on Ancestry under their card collection.

It seemed Elizabeth was not a prisoner in Wormwood Scrubs but worked in the Chaplains House.

thank you everyone for all youe help
Linda

Kay
Thank you I looked at that too. Such a shame to hide details. But perhaps they didn't think of that at the time x

All the other filmed images are shaded in blue over the page and the finer details blocked out. and also show their birth certificate.

Perhaps it cant be altered.?

ArgyllGran

I think it was about 1912-13 because he mentions in his notes that after a year there was news about ww1 and he wanted to join the navy. He was under age but went to the recruitment 3 Times till he got in. He did his training on the victory and being a farm lad he had never learned to swim. The navy's way of reaching them was to tie a rope around his waist and dangle him over board . He said he learned to swim very quickly ??????

Thanks, Carter.
Aren't families fascinating!

That must have been before 1938:

"A third club for members of the two Universities, founded in 1864 and called the New University Club, had its rooms at 57 St James's Street. This amalgamated with the United University Club in 1938."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_University_Club

ArgyllGran

You are right . Her son was Harry Carter.
She married Edward Brewer who was 30 years older than her and moved back to Wilts and Hampshire.

Harry became known as William Brewer In later life he was known as Bill Carter .

Harry wrote down a few memories when he was in hospital in later life. This is an excerpt

When I came out of hospital I found that my mother and sisters had gone. There was just father and a grown-up stepbrother (about 45 years old I should think) left.

It wasn’t long before I found that I was to go to London to Barts Hospital for further treatment to my arm. I left all this real life behind and went to a horrible jumbled up existence in London.

I remember leaving by train from Itchen Abbas station. The old man gave me 6d. and a neighbour another 6d, these 2 coins I kept in a purse I had stitched from a part of an old glove. I kept them for years and think they were stolen from me at sea.

I do not remember how I was met at Waterloo, but I eventually ended up at the New University Club in St.. James Street, S.W. . I do not know what the connection was, but the Secretary of the Club, MR HORACE BIRCH, and the House-keeper, Mrs. WIDDOWS, were both father and mother to me and I learnt that MR BIRCH was my legal guardian.

They were good people. In due course I went into St. Barts Hospital (Barker Ward) where I had weeks of electric treatment which was highly successful, and then back to the Club. However, I missed our old village where nobody knew anything, whilst here everybody knew everything.

Yes, I think she must have been working at the prison for 7 months.

I assume her son William (1898-99 Fulham) is the child who was registered as Harry.

ArgyllGran

I know, I wish i could view under the blue paper as well.
I have emailed Hammersmith and Fulham Archives and also London Metropolitan Archives to see if they can help.
I would gladly pay to either have a copy or transcript

Linda

I wish I could see the next page of the document!
It says "over", but it's not possible to see the next page.

so we have

Fulham Union

Receiving Officer report

31st August 1898

Chargeability - Pregnant and Destitute

50 Latimer Road - 1 week

24 Holland Park Rod - 2 months

16 Royal Crescent - 3 months

Chaplain Service Wormwood Scrubs Prison - 7 months

Born Aldbourne Wilts

Left there 5 years ago

Father William - Upper Upham Wilts

Elizabeths brother was born in 1881. baptised 3rd july 1881 in Aldbourne.

If elizabeth was in prison when she was 7 months old then why would that be on the document from fulham union. surely it would would give other addresses after that time.
and what chaplain service would it be

If however she was in prison between 1893 and 1898 for 7 months could she have been working for the chaplain . ?

Think I might change my name to " clutching at straws"

Thanks
LInda

Born JAS 1879, Elizabeth would have been about 7 months in Feb1880, so your find looks perfectly feasible, AG, although Wormwood Scrubs is a fair old way from Wiltshire

Just on the wild off-chance:

Sarah Carter
in the England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892
Name: Sarah Carter
Date of Trial: 5 Feb 1880
Trial Year: 1880
Location of Trial: Wiltshire, England
Sentence: Acquittal

Crime: concealment.
In the "Acquitted or discharged" column it says "Bill ignored".

Maybe Sarah was in prison prior to trial, and had her baby with her ??


EDIT:
No, that doesn't fit with the times given for Elizabeth's various places of residence.


EDIT AGAIN:
No, it must have been Elizabeth who was at the prison, not Sarah - and I think it means she was there for 7 months, not that she was 7 months old.

ArgyllGran thank you once again

I don't think her parents were inmates as on all the census they never moved from the same area.
Elizabeths mother died in Aldbourne in 1887 and her father remarried in 1901 but lived in the same area. He was an agricultural labourer and died in Aldbourne in 1905.

If the document from the Fulham union says she left Aldbourne 5 years previous then that would have been around 1893 . She would have been around 14 years of age.
So her time in Wormwood scrubs would have been between 1893 and 1898.

Thanks for all your help
Linda

Just for our reference:

Elizabeth Carter
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Elizabeth Carter
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: William Carter
Mother: Sarah Carter
Gender: Female
Where born: Aldbourne, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Aldbourn
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address: Rounce Cottage
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: Hungerford
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 1276
Folio: 32
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
William Carter 34
Sarah Carter 35
Thomas Jerrom 15 - stepson
William G. Carter 11
John H. Carter 8
George J. Carter 6
Charles Carter 4
Elizabeth Carter 1



Sarah Jerram
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Sarah Jerram
Registration Year: 1868
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Hungerford
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 501
Records on Page:
Name
William Carter
Sarah Jerram

However, she was baptised in Wiltshire, and was too young to be confirmed - so I don't know why else the chaplain might have been involved.

Perhaps some care issue as presumably one of her parents was an inmate.

Argyll Gran I will go take a look now
Thank You
LInda

From this, on the National Archives website, it looks as if London Metropolitan Archives MIGHT have some records:

https://tinyurl.com/ydb49aa7

However, from a quick look at their website, it doesn't look as if they have much relevant for 1879-80.


Maybe this, re Baptism, Confirmation and Service Registers:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N13852580

ArgyllGran
Thank you so much. Now you have said it I can see it,
Just need to see if I can find any records now.
Thank you so much
Linda