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Sarah
Last name Latham
Birth year -
Baptism year 1781
Baptism date 07 Jan 1781
Denomination Anglican
Place Kynnersley ---------------------------
Father's first name(s) Thos
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name -
Residence -
County Shropshire
Register type Composite
Register date range 1721-1792
Archive reference P154/A/1/2

James
Last name Ball
Gender Male
Birth year 1782
Birth place -
Baptism year 1782
Baptism date 1782
Place Shifnal
County Shropshire
Country England
Father's first name(s) James
Father's last name Ball
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name -
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms

??
Wombridge close to Telford and Wrockwardine. there's also a Wrockwardine Wood, which is next to Donnington / Donnington Wood

James Ball
England Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: James Ball
Spouse's Name: Sarah Latham
Event Date: 06 Nov 1809
Event Place: Wombridge,Shropshire,England

Also, unless different James and Sarah. Priors Lee and Donnington Wood less than 2 miles apart. google shows Priors Lee and St Georges. All places fairly close.

Eleanor 16.1.1810 - Priors Lee, Shropshire also shown as Christened in Shifnal
Died 16.7.1810

Sarah 4.9.1812 - Priors Lee

John 12.9.1824 - Dawley Magna

1851
Name: Maria Bell
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Sarah Bell
Gender: Female
Where born: Wrockwardine, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Shiffnal
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Shiffnal
Sub-registration district: Albrighton
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a and 6a
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 169
Piece: 1987
Folio: 267
Page Number: 48
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Bell 70 widow
Maria Bell 30
Sarah Bell ------------ crossed through
James Nock 24
Emma Nock 23

1841
Name: Maria Ball
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Gender: Female
Where born: Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Shiffnall
Hundred: Brimstree (Shiffnall Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

View image
Registration district: Shifnal
Sub-registration district: Shiffnal
Neighbors:
Piece: 909
Book: 10
Folio: 26
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
James Ball 55
Sarah Ball 55 ---- kinnersley
James Ball 20
Maria Ball 18
Caroline Ball 17

?? This family. Ages a year or so out. 1841 census ages supposed to be given for 15 and under, but any older were meant to be rounded down to nearest 5 i.e. aged 29 would show as 25 etc

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Sneds Hill New Row, Shiffnal, Shifnal, Shropshire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
James Ball Male 55 1786 Shropshire, England Miner
Sarah Ball Female 55 1786 Shropshire, England
James Ball Male 20 1821 Shropshire, England Miner
Maria Ball Female 18 1823 Shropshire, England
Caroline Ball Female 17 1824 Shropshire, England
Mary Cooper Female 10 1831 Shropshire, England
Benjamin Cooper Male 8 1833 Shropshire, England
William Shelton Male 20 1821 Shropshire, England

Same census page shows a Richard Ball aged 45 also a Miner

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Aball~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Ashropshire~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1800-1830~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Ajames~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Asarah~

Caroline Ball
England Births and Christenings
Name Caroline Ball
Gender Female
Christening Date 08 Sep 1822
Christening Date (Original) 08 SEP 1822
Christening Place DONNINGTON WOOD,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name James Ball
Mother's Name Sarah

Mariann Ball
England Births and Christenings
Name Mariann Ball
Gender Female
Christening Date 23 Jul 1815
Christening Date (Original) 23 JUL 1815
Christening Place DONNINGTON WOOD,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name James Ball
Mother's Name Sarah

James Ball
England Births and Christenings
Name James Ball
Gender Male
Christening Date 13 Apr 1817
Christening Date (Original) 13 APR 1817
Christening Place DONNINGTON WOOD,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name James Ball
Mother's Name Sarah


Maria Ball
England Births and Christenings
Name Maria Ball
Gender Female
Christening Date 28 May 1820
Christening Date (Original) 28 MAY 1820
Christening Place DONNINGTON WOOD,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
Father's Name James Ball
Mother's Name Sarah

Other records same page show Christenings at St George, Shropshire

Name: James Ball
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 13 Apr 1817
Baptism Place: Donnington Wood,Shropshire,England
Father: James Ball
Mother: Sarah
FHL Film Number: 502936

You should be able to find the names of James and Mary's fathers - if they knew them - by getting a copy of their marriage cert

GG/Shirley,
You are probably both spot on.
The fact that on the "PRIVATE" baptism register it shows address of Mount Pleasant and there was a hospital located there makes me think she maybe was a poorly baby.

I am now requesting the birth and death certs for Sarah, not that I think they will give me any more info but just to tie this up.

At least by finding Sarah I now know the names of her Mother Emma and Grandparents James (1820) & Mary (1821).

Is this when it starts to get tricky to find information? Am I likely to be able to go back further?

GG you said earlier that it looked like James & Mary were born in Dunnington Wood, Shropshire.
There is a Donnington Wood which is less than 30 miles from Longton, so I guess this is the place.
Will I be able to go further back that this?
Not got this far back on branch of my tree.

Exciting
:-D :-D :-D
Thank you to everyone that has picked at bits of this jigsaw.

Well I would still go with here being Emma's daughter . Emma's occ is potter ??? And the enumerator has added earth to it

Born 1888 her birth had to be registered

Plus she gave a different fathers name on her second marriage cert implying she forgot who she gave when she married Claude

It's not unusual for an illegitimate child to make up a fathers name and say deceased to save face . Also saying deceased meant it couldn't be checked on

Private in that context will probably mean Private baptism - not that the Father's name was Private.

Often used if child not expected to survive and also
if rich parents so not "done" with everyone else or done at private homes and
possibly for illegitimate children.

Another answer if googling is - any lay person can carry out - a midwife or poor parents who couldn't afford to pay. Names of children baptised like this would be given to the church and it was up to the incumbent if he recorded them. they might later have a full Christening

Safc, +++DetEcTive+++, Shirley, Austin, Greyghost, Argyll Gran.
You are all correct, yes Sarah did marry Claude Wallace and have two children Frank (my father) & Ivy my aunt.

Claude was killed at the end of WWII and is buried in Terlincthun military cemetery.
After Claude's death Sarah went on to marry Alfred Talmadge and had one son.
At the time of her second marriage her fathers name is shown as Henry Ball- A Potter

On Sarah's marriage cert dated 11/8/1915 it shows her age as 28, which would give a year of birth as 1887.
The 1891 census shows her as being 5, giving a year of birth as 1886.
More accurately ( if this is the correct Sarah, I have a copy of the page of the Baptism book in the town of Longton, Staffordshire in the year 1888.
This shows a baptism date of 17/1/88 , in the side of the page is date of 4/1/88, so I am assuming this was the birth date.
It is on this baptism page that it shows Mother as Emma Ball and PRIVATE instead of a fathers name. The address listed is 10 Mount Pleasant.
Looking up this address, there was a Mount Pleasant Hospital in Longton at this time.
There are 8 entries on the page and Sarah's baptism is the only one with this on it, so I can only assume the Mother, Emma either did not know or did not want to name the father.

The 1891 census that shows, Sarah, Emma, James & Mary does show Sarah's mother Emma worked as a potters transferer, so maybe this is where Sarah got the idea of putting potter as her supposed fathers ( John Ball) occupation of potter on her marriage cert.
Her second marriage states father as Henry Ball-Potter.

Sarah died in 1962 ( Q1 I believe).

I suppose what I am trying to do is confirm that the Longton born Sarah, born 1886-1888, daughter of Emma, Granddaughter of James & Mary, is the same Sarah that married Claude Wallace.
There is just this nagging doubt, as both marriage certs have different fathers names.

I suppose sometimes we just have to accept some things just can't be found :-(

??
You could well be right AQ but the little dash that cuts through the vertical line to the right of the number made me think more likely a 5 ? There are examples where the given age has to be 5 or 15 with the 5 looking the same e.g. Joseph Plant - 6 pages further on seems clear
Archive reference RG12 Piece number 2181
Folio 25 Page 43
or the total males on page 34 of same reference

I'd much rather it be 3, but the 1881 birth cert. might prove one way or the other

I think the transcription is wrong on that 1891 census. I believe Sarah is recorded as age 3 on the original.

Talmage Household (3 People)
19 Foss Road , Wandsworth, London, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Sarah Talmage 04 Jan 1888 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 208 2
Alfred (Thomas) Talmage 18 Dec 1882 Male Unemployed Painter Married 208 1
Alfred Thomas Talmage 27 Mar 1921 Male Cabinet Maker Single 208 3

DOB would fit a Q1 1888 registration.

If the correct person it would seem that the 1891 census is either wrong or her age is recorded wrongly by 2 years

Matching birth date on the 1939 register:

Christening:
Name: Sarah Ball
Gender: Female
Christening Age: 0
Birth Date: 4 Jan 1888<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Christening Date: 17 Jan 1888
Christening Place: Longton, Staffordshire, England
Mother: Emma Ball

Marriage:
Name: Sarah Wallace (widow, age 31)
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 31
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1888
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1919
Marriage Place: Summers Town, Wandsworth, England
Father: Henry Ball (pottery assistant)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Alfred Talmage
Register Type: Parish Register
Witnesses: Margaret Fisher & William E Poulter

Only two births reg for mar qtr

Births Mar 1888 (>99%)
BALL Sarah Stoke T 6b 275
BALL Sarah Alice Congleton 8a 292

She wasn't Sarah Alice so it's back to the stoke on trent one


Deaths Dec 1963 (>99%)
TALMAGE SARAH 75 Wandsworth 5d 766

Do you know when Sarah died? If so, what was her age then?

Looks a possible


Talmage Household (3 People)
19 Foss Road , Wandsworth, London, England
Add to tree View original image Print
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION
Alfred (Thomas) Talmage 18 Dec 1882 Unemployed Painter
Sarah Talmage 04 Jan 1888 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Alfred Thomas Talmage 27 Mar 1921 Cabinet Maker
Ref: RG101/0598B/017/2 Letter Code:
© Findmypast Ltd

Yes that's the right family

Births Jun 1921
Talmage Alfred T Ball Wandsworth 1d 1255

So her birth wil be reg mar qtr 1888 and that birth I posted looks very likely